Death Wobble: How To Fix Your Own Case Of Dreaded Death Wobble
(If you have questions or a comment… post it below, and we’ll answer you ASAP!)
As you have already found out, ” Death Wobble ” is the horrible front end vibration that starts when one tire (usually the right tire first) hits a groove or bump in the pavement somewhere around 40~50mph. Death Wobble is quite possibly the worst possible downside to having a coil-sprung front suspension on a vehicle with a track bar or panhard bar. Vehicles affected by this design are the Jeep Cherokee XJ, the Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ and WJ, TJ and JK Jeep Wrangler, and also include trucks like Toyota, Ford, and Dodge Ram (a page written specifically for the Dodge Wobble is located HERE), as well as early Ford Broncos. Death Wobble is also extremely difficult to try to diagnose and fix, because it is actually caused by slop in the entire steering system as a whole, not by one component. To diagnose and fix Death Wobble correctly, your mechanic needs to look for “play” everywhere in the steering and front suspension system, searching for anything that could have “play” in it. It’s very time consuming to find a Death Wobble fix, and can be downright dangerous while you are in “testing phase”, trying to exorcise this demon from your Jeep or Truck. This page is specific to the Jeep Death Wobble Problem and discusses Jeep Death Wobble Causes and Cures.
The place I tell people to start, is with an overall visual inspection. Spend 10 solid minutes under the
Death Wobble – Front End Suspension Components – 4x4Xplor.com
front end, visually inspecting each one of the steering components for shiny spots on steel, rubber, or polyeurthane, which is typically indicative of suspension components that are moving around when they are not supposed to be. Pay CAREFUL attention to the track bar (also called a Panhard Bar inside and ouside the USA, as well as variant spellings (misspellings?) of trackbar, tracbar, and trak-bar ). The Track Bar is often the culprit in many cases. And, if any of your bolts are even the least bit loose, Death Wobble also can manifest itself and make your life a living hell, so check for looseness everywhere.
If everything appears to be “normal” on the underside of your Jeep or Truck, and you’ve verified the bolt tightness on both ends of the track bar, the next thing to do is to start with a front end alignment, making sure that caster (frequently misspelled as ” castor “) is set correctly as well as toe-in. If you have been offroading and have bent your tie rod even slightly, that, also, will throw off your alignment. Plus, it’s only $40 or so at your local alignment shop. By the way, DO NOT let the alignment shop talk you into a four-wheel alignment, as this is only useful on vehicles with independent rear suspension in my experience, and since there are no adjustment points in the rear of a live-axle vehicle ANYWAY, you’re merely paying for a service that you won’t get by the time you leave the alignment shop. Furthermore, if you have a lifted vehicle, make sure that the alignment shop you choose knows the variant specifications for lifted vehicles, and that they do NOT set it to the “default/stock” settings. A good quality alignment shop familiar with lifted 4×4 vehicles will know these settings, and a poor quality shop will likely tell you that it doesn’t matter whether it’s lifted or not…and that they use the stock specs. Walk away immediately, or hang up the phone and call the next shop, if they do.
If you are now *certain* that the front end alignment that it’s set correctly, and that you have not replaced ANY other front end components recently (including tires or wheels) that may have caused the oscillation to begin, I tell people the next most suspect thing is the factory front track bar. Over time, the tie rod end on the upper portion of the Panhard or track bar (some applications like the WJ Grand Cherokee, the Ford Truck and the Dodge Ram have a rubber bushing configuration instead, which also wears out) develops “play” in it due to wear and miles on the vehicle. The same findings often goes for the lower end bushing, which has a rubber or polyurethane isolator bushing in it, and this “slop” will allow the Dreaded Death Wobble oscillation to occur. Aftermarket trackbars generally come with urethane bushings that allow a LOT less “play” (with respect to movement / crush) than the factory rubber bushings do. The problem with most aftermarket track bars for the Jeep is that they also come with either a Heim joint, Johnny Joint, or tie rod end on the upper end of the Track Bar, which works fine for a while, but wears out over time, leaving you right back where you started, with a large mess in your shorts, a temporarily deafened right ear (from the wife screaming for dear life, or, quite possibly at YOU, for buying the Jeep to begin with, lol), and an overall high level of frustration with your entire rig in general…which doesn’t often lead into a smooth, stress-free trip. The reason why I developed our Track Bar Conversion for XJ Cherokees and ZJ Grand Cherokees is to eliminate that problematic (and expensive to have to replace when it wears out) previously mentioned joint, as well as for the additional flex benefits you get out of it. If you are running an Cherokee XJ or Grand Cherokee ZJ with or without Death Wobble, and it has more than 1.5″ of lift, I highly recommend you check it out. Many aftermarket track bars as well as the stock track bar are completely ineffective in managing Death Wobble due to their “effective angle of operation” particularly if you are above say 2 or 3 inches of lift. Keep the thought in the back of your mind, that another alignment is necessary after replacing ANY front end components, especially if Death Wobble still remains. Sometimes you might get lucky and don’t need one…but be forewarned.
A complementary product we have found to work VERY well in getting rid of Death Wobble is our exclusive Hard-KOR brand SuperDurometer Track Bar Bushings, which are also available for the Track Bar Conversion, and fit most “normal” sized 1.6″ ID by 1.25″ deep aftermarket and factory track bar end loops, which would originally take a 1.6″ OD rubber cartridge bushing. Our SuperDurometer Track Bar Bushings are about TWO TIMES as hard as the typical polyurethane bushings that come in most aftermarket track bars, (which typically are made by Daystar or Energy Suspension for most of the various aftermarket manufacturers). Polyurethane bushings are also one of the least expensive replacement parts in the steering components, so they make sense to try first.
The next thing to check is your steering stabilizer. I recommend AT THE MINIMUM, replacing the stabilizer (or dampener, as it’s sometimes called) at the same time as whatever worn components that you find under the front end, as this “combination punch” is very often more effective than the change caused by each of the parts alone. Death Wobble shakes EVERYTHING, and loosens up OTHER components at the same time. I’ve found that replacing the stabilizer by itself often times doesn’t eliminate death wobble directly, but that it often helps with some other poor handling characteristics, which cause the onset of Death Wobble (such as wandering, for instance) and a new one seems to tighten up the entire steering system. I ONLY recommend our Hard-KOR Steering Stabilizer or the OME SD40 stabilizer , because either one seems to be tighter and work better for stopping Death Wobble than the other manufacturers of steering dampeners and stabilizers on the market (and I’ve tried them all, trying like hell to get rid of a WJ Death Wobble problem years ago). They are also the most heavy duty that I’m aware of. These two stabilizers are the ONLY two that I recommend to ANYONE who is having trouble with Death Wobble, and it’s also one of the least expensive parts to replace in your steering system to attempt to remedy the problem.
Here are some other steering components to check over for looseness or improper movement:
-
Tie Rod Ends (all four, plus the upper track bar end)
-
Upper and Lower Ball Joints
-
Track Bar Mounting Bracket Bolts
-
Steering Box Bolts
-
Track Bar Ends
Another product that we’ve developed to assist with Death Wobble, is our XJ Cherokee Steering Box Brace for the Jeep Cherokee XJ, and our ZJ Grand Cherokee Steering Box Brace for the V8 and 6 Cyl Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ, which holds the steering gear box tightly on those two models, allowing the additional stresses of running larger-than-stock tires be directed to BOTH frame rails, rather than depending on the three little bolts that hold the gear to the frame, which get loose and if they do, will snap the gear box ears off the box, and leave you stranded somewhere you don’t want to be. Another source of Death Wobble is over-inflated tires (you should have somewhere around 30psi or so in stock sized tires, and far less pressure the larger your tires are. See Boyle’s Law and consider how much more volume of air is inside your 33″ tires compared to stock-sized tires. As an example, I run around 18psi in my 37″ tires).
The last thing that I can mention that has caused Death Wobble in the past is hub bearings. If there is a little slop in them over the years and miles, they MAY indeed help to cause the oscillation as well. I mentioned them last because they are the most expensive to replace, and probably least likely to be the ROOT of the problem (though they might be a component adding to the problem). While you have the front end apart, you should consider adding some offset upper ball joints to your Jeep if you’re running a lift kit, in order to return the caster back to what a stock Jeep would be if you are running say 4″ of lift or more. Be aware that on 4×4 models (especially full-time 4×4 models), by NOT changing the ball joints to the offset type, you add more vibration to the front drive shaft since you are also turning your pinion angle downward in conjunction with every caster angle increase. In other words, you can’t have one without the other, and on the full-time 4×4 models, you’ll get a little vibration at highway speeds by NOT doing so. Compared to Dreaded Death Wobble, however, this is a VERY small price to pay, lol.
Hopefully this short checklist gets you started on the right foot and helps to cure your Death Wobble problems, and gives you a permanent Death Wobble Fix.
Very Sincerely,
-=Kevin=-
Additional Resources:
- KGO-TV San Francisco: Chrysler Acknowledges ”Death Wobble”
- Websites-
- Fox News:
What you need to know about the “Jeep Death Wobble”
- Wikipedia: Speed Wobble Definition
- Wrangler Forum: Diagnosing Death Wobble
{ 714 comments… read them below or add one }
I am almost at wits end. I have a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I have a 2 1/2″ lift with 33″ tires. I have replaced the upper and lower ball joints, complete tie rod and ends, drop link and ends, JKS trac bar, a new aftermarket steering stabilizer and a camber kit to adjust the camber. I have had it aligned after all the parts have been installed. I still have the shudder at around 45-50 MPH. The death wobble is gone, but the shudder won’t go away. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
Bradley,
How recently have you had the tires balanced, and at what PSI are you currently running them at? Are they factory rims, or aftermarket?
Rob
KOR Staff
Kevin
I have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler went to FLY-N-HI total performance centers in febuary and had a track bar, tie rod, lift kit and shocks, and also a steering stabilizer put in my jeep got it back the same day not even a mile away from their shop death wobble. I took it to the jeep dealer and they had it for 2 days to diagnose it they think they fixed the problem they tightened everything that the performance center put on it was all loose same thing not even mile out death wobble. I am running out of ideas i drive 50 miles from home and back every weekend and just want something to help. Any ideas??
Jessica
Jessica,
Can you provide any details about the lift, height brand, etc? What type of track bar was installed? Was an alignment done by the shop after the lift was installed? What speeds does the wobble happen at? Does it only happen when you hit bumps, or does it happen when you reach a certain speed?
Rob
KOR Staff
My 97 Wrangler has the dreaded wobble. Sometimes it is just fine. Confusing. Yesterday I was at it again, under the jeep trying to figure it out when I noticed that the passenger side shock was so loose that I could easily move it by hand. I tightened it and I am hoping that this was the problem. Any thoughts on shocks being the problem?
David,
Shocks can definitely be a contributor to the problem. Anything that is loose that is controlling movement of the axle can allow everything to go into chaos. Has tightening this shock relieved all of your issues?
Rob
KOR Staff
Thanks for your help Rob. The issue remains. I tightened the track bar by loading all I had on it. I would say that the nut turned about one revolution. I have my fingers crossed.
Hi, thanks for the info…I had no idea what I was experiencing in my 2004 Wrangler had a name. We purchased it from a dealer in 2008 with low kms. It hasn’t been lifted or modified and as far as we know it wasn’t used off road.
We first noticed the wobble a few years ago…bad wobble at about 95kmh. Scared the crap outta me the first time it happened! We put new tires on it (just stock size) and it seemed to go away…for a while.
Now it’s back. At first I thought it might be because we threw a weight and it was out of balance but that’s not the case. When travelling on the freeway it starts shaking at around 95k without hitting a bump or anything, Easing off the accelerator settles it down. We have found that if we can accelerate fairly quickly from 90kmh to 100kmh, that we can get past the wobble and travel along at higher speeds with no problem. Again, when we slow down we try to slow past that 100 – 90 range fairly quickly to avoid the shake. It works most of the time.
Most people comment that it starts after hitting a bump, but this isn’t the case with my Jeep, Does that give any clue as to what the problem could be?
Lainy,
If your issue happens at speed without hitting any bumps or cracks in the road, it still could be an issue with your tires being out of balance or possibly slightly overinflated. Especially if it is completely absent when hitting those imperfections in the road. It would seem to be more of a harmonic imbalance with your wheels/tires, or even a very slight misalignment.
Rob
KOR Staff
I have a 2007 jeep wrangler Sarah unlimited 80k miles. Replaced all four ball joints, track bar, and steering stabilizer still have the death wobble… Please help
i have a1994 xj cherokee,has a vibration and shake at 60.the death wobble no doubt,it is stock,i have brand new tires on it,new ball joint ,right side ,moog track bar,rancho heavy duty sterring damper,new rotors and pads,have had tie rods checked all good,what the hell is left,it would be a good jeep if it was not 4 that.113,000,on it in good shape,please help………………….
Our farm truck, an ’88 Chevy 1500 4WD that is lifted has bad death wobble. Never happens on gravel, but a lot on asphalt. Would the fix steps be the same for a Chevy as you list in your article? We only use the 4WD in the pasture if we get stuck, and all driving is local, within 30 miles or so.
This is not going to help but If it happens on asphalt it also is happening on gravel. However, since gravel is loose by nature you do not feel it. In other words because asphalt “grips” the tires you feel the wobble versus the looseness inherent gravel.
Jamie,
Well said. This is why it is also good to test out your steering for worn components on rough asphalt, as opposed to your smooth concrete garage floor. The asphalt will provide ‘bite’ on your tires while someone is turning the steering wheel for you, creating some tension or bind in your steering components instead of allowing the tires to slip on the concrete.
Rob
KOR Staff
The only other thing I have to add to this forum is the fact that I dont see anyone on here who has taken the vehicle (Jeep) to a Jeep Dealer.. Everyone is trying to fix it themselves and no one knows what the F%$& they are doing!!!!!!
Why would you need to take it to the dealer. The stock parts are the problem ( there junk). The aftermarket parts fix the death wobble and last alot longer. Not a jeep dealer and have fixed hundreds of them.
I have a 99 Jeep cherokee sport with death wobble I need help I replaced upper and lower ball joints bearings on both sides shock on stabilizer and sway bar links and bushings this process is killing my wallet so should I go with new track bar and bushings 1st or just bushings
Dan,
Unfortunately a lot of people have been to the dealer before looking here. The standard answer is to replace the steering stabilizer (if under warranty), or say the vehicle hasn’t been maintained properly (if out of warranty). And you are right, a lot of people do not know where to start, though I wouldn’t quite state it as bluntly, LOL. Fortunately, there are quite a few people here who deal with this daily, and kind of do know what we are doing.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, thing has driven like dream since I bought it. Did a paper route for 2 yrs, which put a beating on the vehicle, in and out of 300 + driveways everyday. Most people wouldnt be in and out of a driveway 300 times in year. Any way heard a noise in the rear end (sounded like when you were a kid & u put a closepin and a card on your spokes, the bppppp sound). Well one day I went over a liitle bump and BANG no gears. So we pulled the cover off & low & behold the gears were shot they busted, missing teeth. So instead of replacing, I ordered the whole Rear Axle Assembly from Automotix ($350.00), took 14 days to get it. I had my mechanic put it in, no problem. After fixing he took it for a test ride and told me the front was shot also. (who knows whether I can believe that or not) So I ordered a Front Axle Assembly from a reputable used parts dealer (still a junk yard) for $250.00. We put it in, no problem, eberything seems to be OK except the steering wheel is now out of alignment. So Im told no problem, just get a front end alignment that will will straighten evrything out. OK, I go to MAVIS, the guy spends 2 hours on it & tells me he cant align it something else is wrong, he doesnt know what. (No charge, by the way). Maybe its from another jeep not a 2004. mechanic says everything OK. jeep runs smooth and nice until you hit that one bump and here it comes “DEATH WOBBLE”!! No one can figure it out.
I think its just time to get rid of it. You’ll never even be able to sell it unless they never take it for a test drive. Only thing to do is trade it to a dealer and be done with it. Its like a broken bone it’ll never be right again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan,
We deal with a lot of WJ’s. I myself have a 2003, and had the same thoughts of throwing the baby out with the bathwater when I and the family got death wobble at 85 on the freeway one day. Every case of death wobble is fixable and it’s not a terribly expensive venture, though it may take some investigating to see what is going on with yours since the axle is swapped. Luckily, if it’s a WJ front axle, it shouldn’t matter if it’s from a 99 or a 2004, it’s all the same setup.
If you want to email us at sales@kevinsoffroad.com for fastest response, we would be happy to talk to you about what you have going on, and help you get it figured out. Kevin started figuring out death wobble on Jeeps because of WJ’s, and we’re pretty good at getting them sorted out.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
HI i have a 2000 xj have 3 inch coils and new shocks i have bad death wobble if i hit a bump anywhere from 40-60 mph wobbles a bit no matter what at 45-50 ish but i if i hit a bump i have to slow to almost a stop to get it to stop. just installed a new track bar hoping that would fix it and it did not. got a mechanic telling me my lower control arm bushings are shot and that those must be the problem do you agree or should i replace something else ?
Brandon,
If your control arm bushings are shot, that is something that will need to be repaired. You can verify this by grabbing the control arm and trying to twist it. You should not be able to very easily. The control arm keeps the axle in control, and if those bushings are gone, the axle is allowed to wiggle. If he’s grabbing at straws and is just giving you something to fix, that’s another thing, but if they are truly bad, then yes they will need to be addressed.
Rob
KOR Staff
I have death wobble also on my cherokee starts going 50-60. i just checked my track bar seems pretty tight but my drag link bar is loose. u can twist it lots of play. could that be the death wobble???
Blake,
This could be an indication that your tie rod ends on your drag link are bad, which can indeed cause death wobble. You can check for slop in these joints by having someone turn your steering wheel for you while you inspect the steering linkage. Look for any slop in the joints, specifically tie rod ends, and track bar ends. This is best accomplished on a rough surface that will help bind the steering system by gripping the tires (slick concrete is less effective to diagnose on).
Rob
KOR Staff
I have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler “Islander” with a 3″ coil lift, 2″ bodylift , & 37″ tires.
I’ve owned the Jeep for about 6 months, & bought it with the lift on it. Now, this weekend when turning at low speeds it has a “wobble”. Any ideas?
Shawn,
Can you be more specific as to the speed that you are referencing? Is this a 5 mph slow speed or 25 mph slow speed? Does it happen turning either direction? Any other specifics about when it occurs?
Rob
KOR Staff
Hey, I’ve been chasing this problem in a 93 cherokee, and so far I haven’t had any luck after replacing the tracbar and dampener. But I’m being told it might be a pinion in the rear diferential, can’t remember what the pinions full name was, but have you seen that ever be the cause of the wobble? Thanks.
Samuel,
A problem with the pinion may cause a vibration, but would not cause death wobble. Death wobble occurs when the front axle violently oscillates, or shakes at speed, necessitating the vehicle to be slowed nearly to a stop for the issue to subside. This does not sound like the issue you would be having if the rear pinion is a suspect.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
had 97 wrangler tj that had death wobble. replaced the shocks (all 5). Also found the bushings worn on the track bar. Installed the urethane ones and it is fine now. but before I had a 95 cherokee xj that did not like caster. had to get it down to around 2 degrees to make it go away using adjustable control arms.
Having issues with my 1999 tj wrangler that you don’t seem to have a conversion kit for please need help getting rid of the death wobble
Robert,
We do have a death wobble kit for your 99 Wrangler, located at the following link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/tj-jeep-wrangler-hardkor-death-wobble-package-for-1-to-35-of-suspension-lift-p-1080/
The above link is also suitable for stock vehicles with minor adjustment, and we also have a kit for vehicles with 4″ or more lift. Please email us at sales@kevinsoffroad.com if you have further questions.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
Hi, I have a totally stock 2007 jeep wrangler unlimited x and have experienced the death wobble…I was wondering which bushing kit you recommend for my vehicle for the tracbar?
It has 113000 miles on it so I am sure they are bad. Surprisingly I just had Jeep to a shop and they said all front end parts were good.
Brad,
Surprisingly enough, Jeep decided to use two different sized bushings on the JK track bar, and we do not have a buhsing kit to replace both sides of the bar. Due to the inherent flexibility of the stock track bar, we usually recommend replacing the stock bar with a Heavy Duty JKS Bar, and also upgrading the included rubber bushings to our Super Hard Durometer poly bushings for maximum benefit.
Please email us at sales@kevinsoffroad.com if you have further questions regarding any of the above mentioned parts.
Rob
KOR Staff
Hello,
Been fighting the DW for the past month or so now, have read many post and searched everywhere but am at my wit’s end with this thing. PLEASE HELP ME, I am desperate to get this solved and it only seems to be getting worse..
So, ’97 XJ Sport on 2.5″ spacers in front and blocks in back. Have checked everything in the front end for “play,” nothing is loose/wobbily/etc. Had my front tires remounted and balanced just the other day, then the front end aligned. Shop checked all my ball joints and said we’re good.
Right before I had all this done, installed a the adjustable track bar per my post below and centered the front axle as it was 2 inch out towards the driver side with the stock track bar. The alignment confirmed that it is exactly centered and I am on new wheels in the front that are perfectly balanced.
However, after each of these attempts to “fix” it the problem is only getting worse. Guess because I am taking out all the play and isolating the problem, now if I could only figure out what that is.
Used to only happen on certain bumps on the highway at 60+ mph and there was no wobble in the steering at 55. After track bar, more and more bumps set it off. Now after alignment can’t even go above 50mph or it will start wobbling. Even if it doesn’t right at 55 you can feel it starting in the steering wheel with some left to right bouncing.
Have checked the steering box and mount and it seems solid, can yank/jerk/wiggle the pitman arm and there is NO PLAY. Could it be the caster angle since I am on the stock control arms? But really, with 2.5″ of lift that many things should not need to be replaced..? Also, one of the U-joints right behind tranny into driveshaft is slightly shaky/bad could that really be causing all this?
PLEASE, I cannot deal with this as this is my DD and everything I try stiffens things up but only makes the problem worse. Tired of throwing parts and money at it just to make things worse, I have checked all the common things and NOTHING HAS HELPED!!!
Also, has new steering stabilizer (I know doesn’t cause or cure DW), all 4 shocks are new, Shop went through steering components when aligning and everything was “good”??????????
Craig,
It may in fact be the caster angle. Without knowing what you are at, it is impossible to say, but based on everything else you are stating, you have to start looking at things like alignment, control arm bushings, etc. If your control arm bushings are worn, they could be allowing you caster to be out of whack (don’t forget the bushings on the axle). Also look at the tire pressure in your tires. Most people run way overinflated oversize tires. If you are at a 32″ tire and running 35 PSI in those suckers, they are not absorbing impact as they should, and that shock gets transmitted to your suspension and steering.
Feel free to comment back with more info about your setup, and we’ll try to help where we can.
Rob
KOR Staff
Hey there, I have a 94 cherokee on rustle 4.5 lift with upgraded track, steering stabilizer, jks quicker disconnects, brand new 33″ BFF Mtr on brand new pro comp wheels. I got an alignment right after i got new tires put in. But I get a bit of a thumping at 30mph and goes right away and when I hit 65 and up the thumping/wobble come back.. It’s not a crazy wobble but only slightly.. Everything steers fine and drjves perfectly but its almost as if jt just thumping upmand down skightly.. Also I can feel a weak vibration while going uphill @55mph in low rpm in OD.. Any idea on what the problem or fix could be?
I noticed the thumping before I got the tires thinking the tire was out of balance. mind you it was fine when I had 32″ super swamps went back to stock tires for my road trip and that’s when I noticed it..
Any help or advice would be appreciated!!
Hello Kevin, I have a ’97 XJ Sport on 2.5 inch spacers. Recently, I have been getting the death wobble when I hit a good series of bumps at any type of highway speeds (55+). Everything is very tight as I checked when I first read your article; broke out the tape measure today and I can tell the front axle is about 2″+ to the right (drivers side) as I still have the stock track bar. Am thinking of purchasing the “ZJ (all) & ’87>’01 XJ/MJ Hard-KOR Track Bar Conversion: Cures Death Wobble” from you as I am almost positive this is the culprit. I am on a serious budget but want to do this right, so are there instructions as to mount and properly center the front axle myself? Wouldn’t I also need to extend the drag link as the axle is moving to the left and the pitman arm is on a stationary point? If I don’t adjust it won’t the steering seriously be off-center? Or can I more easily adjust the steering while leaving the drag link alone? Are there instructions/advice to do this? Also, are the “Hard-KOR SUPER-hard Rockwell Durometer (72d) bushings for Track” bushings REALLY WORTH IT, as I said I AM ON A SERIOUS BUDGET but believe if I do it I am going to do it right? Thank you in advance for your advice….Regards!
Craig,
Yes, when you move the axle over to the passenger’s side, you will also need to adjust out the drag link. There are full instructions on the install of the Track Bar Conversion on our website at: http://kevinsoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/Track-Bar-Conversion.pdf
We highly recommend the Super Durometer bushings, but they are by no means a necessity. If you can’t afford them now, you can always use the KOR Bucks you earn on the Track Bar conversion purchase towards your next purchase. They certainly do firm up the track bar, and improve what is already a vastly better than stock setup.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
I just bought a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, which is not lifted and to my knowledge is pretty much stock everything, 4WD 4.0m MFI 6cyl. I went to drive it to work the other day and was shocked by the most violent shaking I’ve ever experienced in my life. Needless to say I was concerned. I immediately turned around to drive it back home, and was rewarded with three more occurrences of what I’ve just found out has been lovingly called the Death Wobble. My stepfather went ahead and looked it over while I was at work and found that the front driver’s side CV axle was horribly worn and the rotor on that same side had a pencil deep grove in it. So the next day I bought all the parts I was told to, Duralast CV axle, shiny new rotor, and some new brake pads. These were all adequately replaced, and so I started her up again yesterday to go to work again and not two miles down the road did the cursed death wobble reoccur! I had thought we fixed the problem, but I had no idea what I was really up against until this very morning. With this new knowledge in tow I plan to go outside, and with the help of my currently sleeping boyfriend, check for play in the front of my jeep. Other things worth mentioning/asking about, when we checked my tires (15″) the rear and passenger sides were at 80 psi, and the driver’s was at 16 psi. We rectified that, but the dreaded DW persists. Other than what is explained above is there anything specific to my case you might mention/recommend/forewarn? Thanks for any help or advice!
Kaylin,
Definitely read through the article and do the inspection suggestion, with having someone turn the steering wheel while someone else inspects the steering system joints. Any play in the tie rod ends, or track bar ends needs to be addressed, or you will continue to face this issue, I’m afraid. If there’s anything you come up against that you’re unsure of, post here, or shoot us an email at sales@kevinsoffroad.com, and we’ll be happy to help.
Rob
KOR Staff
Just bought my ’04 TJ RME, all stock, about a year ago, after driving it for about 4 months, I started getting the DW. The tie rod end on the passenger side of the tie rod looked pretty worn, so i replaced that…no more DW, that is until a few weeks ago, it’s rearing its ugly head again…argh. My inspection the first time, I didn’t see anything other than that tie rod end that looked worn. Haven’t had a chance to get back under, but is it possible that my worn tie rod end was not the culprit, but a victim of the DW? Guess I’ll be crawling back under this weekend
My 94 Grand Cherokee has a 3″ Rough Country lift and I just mounted 31″ tires. Alignment and balance was performed but eventually the DW occurred at 45mph occurred. Took it back to the shop and they said all 4 wheels were out of balance so that was resolved but the DW returned. Best description is the front end seems to shimmy side to side from start to 10mph which resolves to a mild vibration at 30mph and occasionally DW at 45-50 (more often when I have two passengers). It sometimes resolves at 55 and smooths out at 65mph.
I have the Rock Country stabilizer to install after I inspect the suspension as you indicated. Will the track bar resolve the issue if everything else is tight?
Eric
Eric,
It’s really hard to say that the track bar will fix it if everything else is okay. Either the track bar is bad, or it isn’t, and it will be evident when you do the inspection on the suspension as outlined on the page here. Have someone work the steering wheel for you back and forth between 10 and 2 while you watch the steering components and look for play. If there is anything (especially the track bar) that is worn, it will show up in movement during this inspection. Please get back to us with your findings after this inspections.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
Rob,
Replaced the stabilizer which (leaking badly) which resolved the DW but there still is some vibration starting at 45, resolving at 55. A quick inspection didn’t reveal any play but I didn’t have assistance to turn the wheel. Once the weather clears I’ll inspect and most likely replace the track bar considering the list has pushed the axel to the left by about 2″.
Thanks for the resource,
Eric
Eric,
Yes, seeing the system under load helps tremendously. Let us know if we can help out at all once it warms up.
Rob
KOR
I have a 1990 jeep cherokee limited with extreme death wobble 55-60mph all steering components, track bar and bushings are stock. It has a 5 inch lift on it sitting on 31s. it constantly pulls right. what all parts should i purchase to solve this problem ?
Tim,
It definitely sounds like the first thing on order should be a new adjustable track bar. That stock track bar is no good after about 2 inches of lift, and at 5″, your axle is either way off towards the driver’s side or there’s a relocation bracket, or something else nasty under there that’s jacking up your steering geometry.
We offer our Track Bar Conversion kit, which swaps out the tie rod end style track bar for a much more stable and flexible poly bushing and double shear mount: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/zj-all-8701-xjmj-hardkor-track-bar-conversion-cures-death-wobble-also-fits-8486-with-minor-modification-p-1017/
This will also get your steering geometry back in line, and the axle where it should be. Try that out first, and then trouble shoot any lingering issues. That should resolve quite a bit.
Rob
KOR
Got a death wobble on 83 cj 7 cant figure out any thoughts running 35 s n about 6 to 7 inches of lift bought it like that
Tino,
I would start with looking at your tire pressure (start in the low 20′s and work from there), and maybe having your tires balanced first. Unless you have had some modifications, I assume you have a leaf sprung front suspension still, so you should have fewer issues with death wobble than the coil sprung Jeeps.
If you have a heavily modified CJ, send us the details and some pics to sales@kevinsoffroad.com, and we’ll try to help decipher what is going on with it.
Regards,
Rob
KOR
hi.
i bought a 2002 Jeep grand Cherokee w 166k miles. It has 2.5 inch lift w rubicon rims and firestone road tires. i experienced death wobble today so i will have all the suspension checked out for any play. is there anything else you recommend i do that you didnt already mention here? thanks for your time.
juan
Juan,
Once you have it checked out, let us know what was found. We’ll need to know some details about the track bar, and how it is lifted (coils, spacers, coils and spacers?).
We’ll gladly help you get it worked out. Lots of WJ sweat and tears around here, but we are all now happily driving ours with no wobble issues.
Thanks,
Rob
KOR
HI I have a jeep wrangler sharia with a four inch lift kit. It has the shake at 55mph and you have to slow down to 40 mph to get it to quit. Its been at a shop getting work done on it for a month now they replace the stablizzer and the track bar. I dont know If you would have anymore subjugation on getting it fix.
I am experiencing death wobble in my 2012 4-door Jeep Wrangler. I have a 4″ lift kit that was installed at the dealership. I am running 35 PSI in Mickey Thompson Baja ATZ, the size is M+S LT 315/70 R17. What would you suggest the tire pressure to be in these tires to help with Death Wobble.
Charles,
You will want to verify even tread wear to make sure these settings are appropriate for your tires, but you should really be down around 25-26 psi, as a starting point, and most likely need to go down from there a bit. It seems crazy, but we always suggest you at least try dropping the pressure. It’s pretty cheap to reverse the process and put air back in. Our hunch is that you’ll notice a huge difference in how the vehicle drives, and your tires will probably last a lot longer. The tire shops set it to what is on the glove box because that turns off the idiot light, but it’s not really appropriate for the tire. I’ve been maintaining 26 psi in my 285 70 17′s for road use for about a year, and the ride and tire wear are great.
Rob
KOR Staff
i had the “death wobble” in my 2001 wrangler sport..we checked the entire front end…and finally found it was the steering box…it was bad which i found out was a common thing. so once it was replaced not only was the power steering even better than new the wobble was no longer there…i tested it on every bump i could find and finally no shake.wobble, scare!!!! hope this help others
Stacey,
Glad you found your issue and got the wobble exorcised! Thanks for posting.
Rob
KOR Staff
Hi Kevin.
Im at my wits end here. I am the proud owner of a 2012 JKU with 14000 km on my vehicle. I purchased a Rough Country Series 2 3.5″ lift kit and installed it 2 weeks back. My first ride home on the expressway was terrible. First bump I hit doing 100km’s and death wobble galore. Scared me. Everything is new and tight. My question is does Castor angle effect the death wobble? I understand excessive positive will destroy ujoints so I dont want too much. I believe im running 4.5 degrees on one side and 5 on the other. Knowing this kit, is there a common fix for this? I just want to get to the source of the issue.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Kevin,
We don’t have a lot of experience with that kit, but do have a lot of experience with sorting out Wranglers. Lifted JK’s or even stock JK’s on stock wheels and tires have been having issues for years with the track bar. We have been able to successfully resolve a very high rate of death wobble issues on JK’s with a new track bar, harder bushings, and a steering stabilizer. Our success rate with JK’s is very high, because there is not a lot of issues with other worn out components like on older vehicles.
Caster does indeed affect the occurrence of death wobble, but yours appears to be roughly where it should be if those numbers are accurate. If the vehicle was not aligned after the lift install, this needs to be done. The lift rotates your axle a smidge, which throws your toe-in values off.
Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
Wobble at 55 mph: Great information on your website and Forums on wobble problems. I just installed a 3.5″ RE lift w/ adjustable upper arms in my ’06 Rubicon with 16.5k original miles. When I got it all done (and torqued properly on the ground) I ended up with a wobble at around 55 mph that goes away at higher and lower speeds. I’ve rotated the tires (original w/ good tread), re-set alignment to your recommended specs, and went through your check list with no luck. I’m ordering your steering stabilizer and will get my tires balanced. The RE track bar appears heavy and solid to me. I did not receive a drop pitman arm with the kit and was wondering if you think putting one on would help solve the problem by lowering the drag link closer to the original geometry. Any suggestions?
Bill,
We would recommend against the drop pitman arm in most situations. Your RE adjustable arm SHOULD put the drag link and track bar about parallel with each other, if not it may be time to consider a different track bar.
The concern with most TJ track bars, that we are able to alleviate, is that the bushing on the axle end has too much movement with standard rubber and poly bushings. Our bushing kit puts a much harder bushing, and much better, locking, hardware in place of the stock stuff. You may not be able to see movement on that axle end, but when you are at freeway speeds, there is a lot of force exerted on that bushing, and it WILL crush and allow the track bar (and thus axle) to oscillate.
I’m not 100% sure that our kit is compatible with the RE track bar, but if the inside of the eyelet measures out to 1.5″, it should work.
Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Rob
KOR Staff
Do you guys have a kit for a 2004 Jeep Unlimited?
Billy,
We certainly do. We actually have two versions, depending on the amount of lift (if any) on the vehicle. They are located at the following links:
TJ’s with 1″-3.5″ of lift: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/tj-jeep-wrangler-hardkor-death-wobble-package-for-1-to-35-of-suspension-lift-p-1080/
TJ’s with 4″+ of lift: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/tj-jeep-wrangler-hardkor-death-wobble-package-for-wranglers-with-4-or-more-of-suspension-lift-p-1081/
Please let us know if you have any further questions regarding these kits.
Sincerely,
Rob
KOR Staff
Just bought your HARD-KOR SUPER-HARD ROCKWELL DUROMETER (72D) BUSHINGS WITH SLEEVES and installed it on a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a JKS adjustable track bar…everything went well except the larger bolt and nut that came with the kit prevents from getting a tool to hold the nut in the back from spinning so i am unable to torque it. Any ideas?
Jonathan,
The method I usually use when dealing with that nut is to take a 22mm wrench and place some duct tape over one side of the closed end, leaving one side open to place the nut. The duct tape will hold it in place enough to keep it from falling out while you guide it up into the axle side bracket, and the wrench will keep the nut in place so you can torque it down. Once the nut is tightened, you should have enough clearance to remove the wrench (it may take a little wiggling but it will come out, unless you have a crazy-thick wrench). That should do the trick.
Rob
KOR Staff
i have a 2007 jk. 4in susp. lift (tj rock crawler spring), procomp shocks, stock everything else..i have sever SEVER!!! DW. everything is tight, no wallowed brackets and its only my drivers side tire that shakes VIOLENTLY. could my problem simply be an ali? or should i replace the track bar with AM parts to get my angles back?? if i have stock track bar,pitman arm,sway bar,drag link ect. would my problem be resolved if they were converted to aftermarket parts meaning (my stock parts arnt compatiable with the 4in lift even though it all bolted back together…)
Clinton,
Even on bone-stock JK’s, we have people contacting us every day with death wobble with only 20K miles on their vehicle. Our recommendation will be the same starting point for you. You need to get rid of the stock track bar and bushings. Our Death Wobble Package for the JK is highly effective at getting rid of Death Wobble. The track bar and it’s bushings are VERY flexible and will ‘accordion’, allowing the front axle to oscillate. Also, with a 4″ lift, and your stock track bar, your axle is pulled over towards your driver’s side ever so slightly. We suggest doing the package as a whole, as your steering stabilizer is most likely shot by the time you experience death wobble. The link to the package follows, which explains the features and what is included: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/jk-jeep-wrangler-hardkor-death-wobble-package-for-10-to-60-of-suspension-lift-p-1086/
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Rob
KOR
I have a 1997 wrangler with a 4in lift and 33s and get DW im ok from 0-30 MPH and 50-75 it only happens between 35-45 MPH and only if i hit a bump on the right hand side at those speeds.. ive replaced the track bar with one thats supposed to be correct for the lift. after reading your article im gunna try and replace every thing that could have any play in it plus the stabilizers would dual stabilizers help more? .
Ed,
Generally, a dual stabilizer setup is not needed. The only system where we recommend a ‘dual’ setup is in the WJ, and that is just because we have found it effective to have a dampener on the track bar. Many people get rid of the stabilizer in the stock location to eliminate crushing it on rocks, as it becomes unnecessary to have two.
Usually eliminating the play in the steering system due to worn parts, getting a proper alignment, and tire balancing/pressure change will clear up the issue.
Rob
KOR
Severe death wobble cured on my 94 zj thanks to KOR article!!!Thank you. During the alignment process test driving,i had to take back to align shop. After experiencing a couple of dw that stalled my vehicle. Jeep would not start unless i reset alarm at door locks and it would fire right up. Currently have a no spark conditon & the key reset doesn’t work. I have tested, replaced or repaired everything i have found on many forums. Have you ever heard of dw knocking out the Obd1 pcm causing the no spark condition? I do have 12 v to the coil, but no trigger pulse to fire it.
Mac,
Very sorry to hear about the electrical issue you are having, but I suppose violent shaking could cause a whole host of electrical issues depending on the age and condition of the wiring. I wish I had an easy answer for you on this one, but this is not a common issue that we come across. Best of luck, the forums are an awesome asset to have in troubleshooting issues like this.
Rob
KOR
i have replaced every part for steering after market trac bar, upper ,lower ball joints the only thing i have left to change is the pitman arm. i am still getting the death wobble . cherokee xj,1998, 4 inch lift 33 inch tires. any imput?
“Sky”,
The answers lie somewhere in the paragraphs above. We honestly have never come across a case that could not be cured. Being that we cannot see all of the parts, or know what exactly was used to fix the issue, you will have to do some more legwork. Do you have any drop brackets (drop pitman arm, drop track bar bracket)? What PSI are you running on your 33′s? Can you verify if there is any movement at your steering box under load?
Let us know some of these answers, and feel free to drop us some more questions. We need to get as much info as possible to be able to help out.
Rob
KOR Staff
Thank you do much for all of this info! I was just about ready to give up on it man.. But when I get home from work I’m gonna check on all of that stuff in that order! You can email me an ill leg you know how it goes! Thanks again man!
AJ,
Sounds good! Let us know how it goes, and if you find a culprit, or need some more ideas. Every case of death wobble is solveable!
The KOR Krew
2006 JEEP WRANGLER. When I curve to the right 40mph or more the front end starts to shake. Any ideas on what I need to do to fix this. Everyone tells me its my tires. I replaced and the problems is ongoing. URGENT HELP NEEDED
CJ,
Check out your steering linkage, tie rods and ball joints for wear. I would also check the wheel bearing (unit bearing) for play on the right wheel for play. Jack it up off the ground and try to shake the tire left to right and top to bottom. You can also check the ball joints by following the steps outlined in the article above (basically prying up on the wheel with a lever to see if there is movement in the ball joints).
Rob
KOR
Kevin,
I have a 2002 Jeep Wrangler with a death wobble. I’ve replaced the whole suspension system except for damper shock but it has not fixed the problem. Once I hit approximately 50mph I still get the death wobble. What else may be causing it?
Ramon,
Without knowing the full details of what was replaced, it’s hard to say. I would suggest changing the stabilizer, as it may be worn out and ineffective especially if it has been fighting against the forces of death wobble for a while. It has probably developed a dead spot.
When was the last time you had it aligned, and do you know what you alignment specs are (i.e. caster and toe-in)?
hi rob
well i have replaced the adjustable track bar, tie rod end (R), tie rod end (L), tie rod end @ the pitman arm, & the steering tie rod end (all parts r moog parts)
yes went i change those parts i did do the alignment, but i think they only adjust the tie! not the caster & balance the front tires
Ramon,
Depending on your setup, the caster may be off, but not be adjustable. I’m not sure if you are lifted, or what modifications you have. Again, we are missing a lot of info, and just providing possibilities. You can certainly check stuff out and bounce the results off of us, and we’ll be happy to help.
Rob
KOR
yes i’m on a 4” lift from 4 wheel drive part bought back in 2003, also running 33×10.5xr15 tires Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain
I sure hope you can point me in the right direction.
I have the dreaded DWs in my 1997 Cherokee Sport.
Everything is stock, stock, stock. As far as I know, nothing except shocks all around has been replaced or serviced.
Would it be a good guess for me to just bite the bullet and replace all front suspension works to get rid of the beast?
And while I’m at it, My Sport has a shock on each front wheel and beside it is a coil spring with something that looks like the top part of another shock just dangling from the top inside the coil.
Now, is that a shock or what is it? If so, why wouldnt the shop have replaced them as well when I had it in and asked them to replace all shocks?
Thanks for your time in reading my note !
Carson Jockell
Marengo,IN
Carson,
The part inside your front coil that you are describing sounds to be your bumpstop, which is a piece of rubber that limits the uptravel of your front axle to keep it from bottoming out. Unless these are in terrible shape, or the vehicle is lifted, and you need extended bumpstops, there should be no need to replace these.
As far as what in particular is causing your death wobble, it is very hard to say. Very often the original track bar will be the culprit, so we usually have people at least check that out first. Check all of your tie rod ends, for shiny spots, torn rubber, or other wear. It helps to have someone turn the steering wheel for you, while you look for any popping or loose joints in your steering system. Again, pay special attention to the track bar at both ends for any movement, as this is a very common culprit.
Our Death Wobble Packages take a lot of the guesswork out of fixing a problematic, or you can purchase the pieces individually if you are able to identify the part you think is giving you trouble: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/xj-jeep-cherokee-1987-hardkor-death-wobble-package-p-1065/
Please feel free to contact us with any other questions you may have.
Hello from Alabama,
I bought a 2004 Tacoma PreRunner RWD with a 3 inch lift. The upper arms were almost touching the front tires. I added 2 inch spacers and immediately go the wobbles. Do you think the 2 inch spacer was a bit much? could I get by with 1 inch instead without causing the front end to continue to wobble? I wanted the wide look. Thanks for any consideration given.
Van
Hi Van,
You may have better luck going to a smaller spacer. Putting on a large wheel spacer can overload the factory steering components and unit bearings that are only engineered to handle the stress of the factory wheel offset. You may want to go with a spacer that will give you just enough clearance to work with your lift.
Rob
KOR Staff
I’ve also been having this “death wobble” more and more recently. Up until about 3 weeks ago, i didn’t have a problem. When it first happened i couldn’t quite control my car because it was shaking that bad. Ever since that first time it “wobbled” it’s done it almost every time I drive my car. I have a 2007 Wrangler with a 1.5in lift and 33in tires. I’ve already replaced the stabilizer twice & bought all new tires, plus multiple alignments and this problem still occurs. It will even happen if i drive half a mile. I picked up a friend down the road and it happened on the way there as well as on the way back. It’s getting to the point where I want to sell my car because it’s so frustrating not being able to fix it or know how to.
Bre,
If you have replaced the steering stabilizer with stock units, they will keep failing. We have developed a kit of parts that will take the guesswork out of getting rid of the death wobble, and it has been very successful with our customers in solving it the first time. It can be found here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/jk-jeep-wrangler-hardkor-death-wobble-package-for-10-to-60-of-suspension-lift-p-1086/ . Please let us know if we can answer any other questions.
Rob
KOR Staff
I have this problem in my 2002 F 150 FX4 it shakes violently at 45 miles per hour where can I go to get this fixed and how much will it cost
Brandon,
If you have an F150, you will have independent suspension, and I would suggest heading first to a tire shop to get your tires inspected and balanced. Once that’s checked out, if you are still having a problem, you would want to take it in to a local mechanic if you are not comfortable troubleshooting it yourself. You can follow some of the advice above for worn ball joints and shocks, although the Jeeps mentioned above have solid axle front ends and are a little bit of a different beast. I can’t advise on a price for fixing your specific issue, unfortunately.
kevin,
I own a 96 jeep cherokee classic 4×4. its liftedon a r.c 4.5” lift on 33” mt tires. ive read your page and am hoping you can help because im running out of ideas. to keep it short i bought the tires on rims from a friend. the rims were slightly bent or off i learned later, which caused the origianonal death wobble(dw). so i bought a dual steering stabalizer. which helped. after blowing countless bushing and tie rod ends i bought an upgraded track bar setup with a new drop bracket and heims joint. i got an allignment and made sure although the rims were off cilter, that i had them put in the correct place to eliminate as much vibration as possible. ive probably spent close to 800-900 bucks on my front end problems. thing is after the new bracket/trackbar and stabilizer were installed it rode fine for about 3 months. i was making a 2-3 hours drive home the other day and out of nowhere it started happening again. when i sped up or go to slow down. ive talked to two shops who always tell me different things. im running mostly rough country products, and was told from shop A, that no matter what i do elimating the wobble will be nearly impossible due to the rims and tires. shop B told me when i had them look at it that the heimsjoint/trackbar setup i had bought and installed was too big for my 4.5 inch lift and that he uses a silimar one on his truck with 12 inches of lift. he then told me that the drop bracked for the trackbar needed reinforcing and that that and a new heims joint on the lower end of the trakcbar would solve my problems. two major things i want to include are that before i put the 33′s and rims on my jeep there was no wobble problems even with the lift and no new stabilizer. im honestly tired of wasting money for only a few months fix and would like to know if from this info you can diagnose my problem. its not my beings or knuckles. though i havnt thought of a steering box upgrade. so please any help would be grealty appeciated. if any more information is needed to help il be glad to give you. im not very mechanically inclined but an slowly learning. thanks for the help and i hope you have a merry christmas, if that is your holliday of choice. hope to hear form you soon.
ps. if you email me please put “death wobble problems” or something similar as the subject as i get alot of junk in my inbox….
James,
It’s really hard to definitively answer what the end-all cause of your wobble is, but it honestly sounds like you could be getting a little bit of sound advice from both shops.
It is possible, that the rims and tires (whatever the problem may be) will prevent you from permanently fixing the problem. A bent rim, or rims can be impossible to properly balance. It could be that your dual steering stabilizer masked the vibration enough until the shocks just wore out, and your symptoms started up again.
We generally recommend not using a track bar drop bracket in most cases, especially at around 4-4.5″. They generally flex too much for their own good, and cause more trouble than they are worth. At 4.5″ you should be able to use a good quality adjustable track bar, a stock pitman arm and call it a day. The steering angles are just not severe enough to warrant a drop bracket.
To summarize, I would suspect the tires and drop bracket first, like the other shops said. If you have a known good set of tires you can try out, I would give that a go first. Then see if you can get rid of the drop bracket. We have lots of excellent options for XJ track bars: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_6_33&products_id=1017
I bought a 2000 Wrangler in June with a 3 inch BDS lift, that does have some age on it. I recently bought new wheels from Discount Tire. Up until 2 weeks ago I had never experienced the “Death Wobble”, but after I put new wheels on it from Discount Tire it has now happened twice. Once when I was going up a ramp to merge onto a highway, and once when I was on a bumpy road. Could the new wheels and tire rotation have something to do with this. Where should I start to get this figured out?
Angie,
When something like this starts, it’s pretty safe to suspect the most recent change (in this case your wheels). It’s very possible that you got a tech that may have either overinflated your tires, or balanced the tires poorly. Or it could be that you had a tire that was way out of balance in the rear which didn’t cause a problem until it made it’s way up to the front of the Jeep and the steering system.
Also, if you have a large aggressive tread tire, and went from a factory wheel which often gets balancing weights on the face of the wheel, to a wheel where you don’t want to see the weights on the outside of the wheel (or they’re not feasible), it can be very hard to properly balance the tires.
I would bring the Jeep back by Discount, and have them rebalance the tires for you. If you can also find out what PSI they are inflated to, and what size tire we can make some recommendations from there.
Thanks for getting back to me. I have BFG’s 33×12.50 MT’s on there that were previously on American Racing Outlaw 1′s. I replaced them with the MB TKO wheels from discount tire. I took it to another place and it’s getting rebalanced right now. I also told them to check for anything loose underneath.
I replaced the track bar on my 199 jeep cherokee. I still have the wobble. Is the bolt that holds the right end in place supposed to have so much play in it? Seems to me that the bolt should be a bigger diameter to fit more snuggly.
Dale,
The wobble will cause the Track Bar hardware to actually enlarge the hole that the bolts go into. We have developed a hardware kit for our bushings that allows you to use larger hardware, and eliminate the slop you are dealing with. The kit is available here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_6_31&products_id=1079, but that hardware is only compatible with the axle (passenger side) connection if you have a standard style track bar with a tie rod end at the driver’s side. If you later upgrade to a track bar conversion (), you will have the bushings and hardware for both sides.
Hey there, I just lifted my 93 YJ from 2 to 4 inches, It had 1.5″ shackles on it and I added 2.5″ leaf springs. I have purchased a new skyjacker m95 stabilizer, Rubicon express axle side track bar relocator bracket, and brand new bushings from daystar for both the axle and frame side of my track bar. I have been getting DW at 40 mph since I installed the lift, however the intensity has reduced some since the installation of the stabilizer, but its still there. any suggestions? + do you know where I can find a torque spec chart at?
Keith:
Will our SuperDurometer bushings fit your track bar? If it’s a stocker, then they should. If so, you may well want to pick up a set of the KOR-1189-s bushings and hardware kit. There are none on the market stiffer that I’m aware of. Our bushings fit bars with a 1.6″ ID loop. Here is a link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079
Second, check the relocating bracket, and make sure it’s not moving around under there. Frequently, drop brackets will flex, due to the added stress of the leverage you just added. You may want to have it stich-welded in position, if so, or remove it completely, to see if that resolves the issue.
Lastly, check the stabilizer to see if it’s got an air bubble in it. Move it quickly in and outward, while its’ at the center of it’s stroke, simulating the frequency you feel in the steering wheel when your Jeep goes into Death Wobble. Some stabilizers, including some major name brands, do a crappy job of stopping that oscillation, and people spend hundreds/thousands of dollars tracking down OTHER problems, thinking that the stabilizer is in good shape since it’s new.
Assuming your alignment is set correctly, that should resolve your entire issue, my friend. Oh, and your shop manual will give you torque specs for each bolt.
I have a 2003 Jeep Wrangler SE, no lift, all factory, five speed manual, 4 cylinder. I have had the shocks, ball joints, U joints, rotors, steering dampener, track bar and new tires. Still have the DW, any ideas?
Double check these three things, Keith:
1) Steering Stabilizer is dampening properly
2) Alignment is within specs
3) Track Bar faulty / allowing movement
My son recently purchased a 2013 Wrangler unlimited sahara 4wd. It has a 3.5 Rubicon Express Lift. 20 Fuel Kranks with 35 Toyo Open Country Tires. Lift package was installed at the dealership in Atlanta. My son came down with the flu and I ended up driving the jeep home. A 7 hour interstate trip. A nightmare! I’m certain I experienced the death wobble.
I was traveling 68mph the first time. The jeep started wobbling and I felt like I was losing control of the vehicle..extremely hard to stay in my lane and I actually veered into the left lane before I could slow down. I had to drive with both hands on the wheel the entire trip..there seemed to be too much play in the steering, but maybe I’m just not used to driving a jeep! I’m wondering if they installed the lift pkg and set it to default/stock setting?
Hey there, Robin. Sorry to hear about the trouble you’re having. There are two things are affecting the steering problem play you’re explaining:
First, the steering rod (called a drag link) pushes the passenger tire inward and outward, making the Jeep turn. When the Jeep is lifted, the angle is a bit more up/down and a little less 1:1 ratio, like it would have been from the factory, so the steering feels a bit looser, because the movement on the steering wheel has been lessened, and the ratio has changed to maybe .95:1, due to the up/down motion that the drag link has to go through.
Second reason, is that you’re probably used to driving a vehicle with rack and pinion steering. The gear box style of steering is never going to feel as precise, even at stock height, as a rack and pinion style is going to feel.
Those two reasons, however, do NOT have anything to do with Death Wobble, so yeah, it’s entirely possible that the dealership didn’t get something right! Take it back to them and get them to resolve the issue. It’s still under warranty (even with the lift kit installed, since THEY installed it!) and make them get it adjusted properly so that your son doesn’t have to deal with it.
Death Wobble is extremely unnerving…I feel for you…especially on that long of a trip. Hang in there, Robin…Death Wobble is definitely curable.
I have a 2007 Sahara with a terrible Death Wobble. Going to get your complete kit and am wondering if it is something that a shade tree mechanic can install with above average mechanic skills or is this something that needs to be taken to a shop. Does the kit include installation instructions.
Definately a job that an experienced shadetree mechanic could handle, Brian. If you’re a TOTAL beginner, then you may elect to take it to a shop experienced with Death Wobble to install for you.
All the instructions are located here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/category/installation-guides/
There isn’t one for the kit as a whole, however, there is one for each component.
Has anybody purchased and installed Kevin’s death wobble kit? If so what has your success been? I don’t see any reviews on the site where success is discussed.
Thanks!
Kevin,
I have a 09 Jeep Rubicon Wrangler 4-door. I’ve had it for about 2 years. The “DW” started awhile back at about 40-50 mph. If I slowed down or sped up it went away. Now it’s at 32-35 mph and I have to come to a complete stop. I bought it from a dealership already lifted with 35’s on it, not sure exactly what’s on it! Could you please send me a link to your full package that will help fix the problem? I know that an alignment might be necessary also… But is there anything else that’s not included in the package that I’ll need to buy as well?
Thank you Leigh
Yeah, sounds like it’s getting worse, Leigh. Here’s a link to all of our Death Wobble solutions for the JK Wrangler, including the full package you were asking about:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_66
Hi Kevin,
I have a 2008 jeep wrangler 3 inch lift with 35′s. Not sure if I have DW or not. The steering wheel would shake terribly around 35 mph, where I would have to slow down and almost stop. I had the wheels balanced and then a front alignment. Does not do it driving anymore but does it when I am driving and hit a pothole or bad bump. Any ideas? Possibly put your steering stabilizer on? What else would you check? The track bar seem fine, no movement. It has never had DW at higher speeds (Thank God!)
Thanks,
Jim
Sounds like you do have Death Wobble, Jim. I’d install the entire package, and hopefully be done with it once and for all. You are always welcome to return any unused parts from the package, if you find that you don’t need them…but replacing everything at once gives you a “fresh start”, and that way you’re not chasing the problem around. Here’s a link:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_66
Have 2010 Jeep Wrangler and have the death wobble about 6 times. Had the jeep in shop 4 times. Only has 11,000 miles on it. This last time driving almost went in the woods and broke the front end housing bracket. Come on only has 11,000 miles on it.
Do you have a lift kit installed, Christy, or is it factory-height still? Press Jeep to fix it for you since it’s still under warranty.
Can worn lower control arm bushings cause death wobble?? Replaced all tie rod ends not too long ago then put poly bushing on all the ends paired with your hard kor stabilizer still no result. I have a steering box brace and ball joints feel good. Control arm bushings and chewed up tires from rubbing on pinch welds is the only thing I could see loose or defective. No movement in track bar used poly bushings as well. 94 Cherokee xj 6in life 33×12.50
Tyler:
Worn lower control arm bushings definitely can be a source of movement, which then causes death wobble when you hit a pothole or something. EVERYTHING needs to be tight under there. I recommend heavy duty JKS adjustable control arms, which have RUBBER factory-style bushings in them, rather than the cheap poly bushings that some of the control arm manufacturers use. Or, you can press the factory bushings out of your factory arms, and press new ones in…but that’s a real pain. ONLY use Moog or better bushings, if you’re going to replace them…the cheapie AutoZone and O’Reilly ones are going to go out on you, and you’ll be right back where you started in a few months or year…depending on how you drive.
JKS arms are available with free shipping right now, on our site…here’s a link:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_38
Note, I have replaced 11 rancho steering stablizers in the past three years now.
Rancho stabilizers are notorious for having a “dead-spot” right in the center of the stroke, which develops pretty early on in their life…so I’m not surprised.
Hey, my 2006 wrangler is still havig the death wobble problem. So far I have replaced the track bar with a good one, tires, shocks, check front end alignment and those that check the suspension system before alinment say everything loks good, tight and nothing shows to be warn out. So what next, I have now about 1500 dollars sunk into trying to slove this onging problem. NHTSA has even loked into the complaints from hundreds of jeep owners. Chry; says it common and no need for recall.
Yeah, Chrysler would say that, lol. I’d suggest one of our entire TJ kits, Robert. In about 90% of the cases, it solves the problem completely.
Kevin,
Just picked up an 02 WJ. Went to have it aligned at a local shop and they gave me a print out of the current specs.
Left Front: Right Front:
-0.9* camber -1.4* camber
4.4* caster 4.3* caster
0.48in toe -0.39in toe
The front tires are extremely feathered and there are harsh/violent vibrations/shakes from 55mph-65mph. I’ve done some research that’s leading me towards offset ball joints to correct the problem but I’m not quite sure. I looked at the carfax and no accidents we’re reported. The jeep was stock when I bought it and still is. Just trying to get it straight for the (Cleveland) winter, and not kill the tires.
Kevin, I have had death wobble since I got my 2006 jeep wrangler new. I have put on three sets of tires, changed the track bar with a good moog track bar and replaced the steering stablizer 11 times in the last three years. I was going to replace the upper control arms and the lower bushings to the lower control arms. But I was told mine were fine. What else can i do to red me of this problem. Tire size is 31 by 11:50 bf goodrich.
Robert:
It’s likely the connection between the axle and the frame is not stiff enough with the Moog track bar and rubber bushings. And, if you’re replacing the Mopar steering stabilizer with a Mopar stabilizer, no wonder you’ve gone through so many. The Mopar stabilizer is not up to the task of anything larger than factory sized wheels/tires…and most of the time, not even that.
Pick up one of our JKS track bars with SuperDurometer bushing kits, and one of our heavy duty stabilizers if the Mopar/Moog one is what you’ve been using…and make certain your alignment is set properly…that should cure the issue for you. http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_65
Hi,
In November in 2011, I purchased an ’08 Jeep Wrangler Sport. About a month after I had it, I hit a bump on the freeway and it started to shake violently. Since then, it has happened (not even a year yet) about 8 times. At first, I took it too a dealership and they had no idea what I was talking about when I said “death wobble.” Then I took it to 2 places that only specialize in Jeeps. All 3 places said my car looks fine. The 3rd Jeep place replaced my steering dampner (it was dented) and put on all new shocks. I thought that helped unitl last night when i hit a bump on the freeway doing about 65 and it started to shake violently. Again, all the places I took my car to said everything looked fine. What to do?
Erica:
First off, the Jeep dealership who says, “I’ve never heard of Death Wobble” is full of it, so I HOPE it wasn’t a Jeep dealer, lol.
Secondly, print out my post, and work your way down through that list…you’re probably going to end up with one of our Death Wobble packages before it’s all over with, because it usually just adds frustration attempting to buy one component at a time. What steering dampener did they install? All dampeners are NOT created equal…you need a nice beefy one!
Heres one: 2006 wrangler. I acquired this vehicle (completely stock with 205′s) in feb 2011 when my father passed away. This vehicle had 2000 miles on it. I drove it over the last year in stock form with no problems. This vehicle has never left paved road. At 7,000 miles I put a set of 265/70/r16 tires and Mickey Thompson aluminum wheels with @ 70% tread. I immediately experianced extreme DW between @ 45mph. I had the tires balanced, but to no avail. So I will go through the list ( excellent and through breakdown) and post as I find so as to help people with any findings I encounter. There are two reasons I am doing this: I have already purchased a SkyJacker 4″ kit which I have yet to install and I want to fix this before I install kit and I want to be able to assist anyone I can, with what is as close to a brand new 7 year old jeep as most people will ever see, with these issues. I will post back as I go.
Sounds great, DJ. Swapping wheels that have different offsets is a known cause of Death Wobble…which is probably what happened. Just “exorcise” the looseness, and get the alignment set properly, and definitely get rid of the Death Wobble before you install the lift kit!!!
Kevin,
Excellent post on how to cure DW. My son’s Cherokee started the wobble after hitting small bumps at around 45 mph. We checked everything with the front end up on stands and couldn’d find any worn tie rod ends or ball joints. The stabilizer had been recently replaced and was working correctly. After taking it off the stands we discovered the track bar mount was completely loose and the bolts had backed off about 1 turn. I pulled the mounting bolts, cleaned them up and then reinstalled with locktite. Problem solved, no more death wobble. Great source for trouble shooting, I’ve added this tread to my favorites for the next occurance of DW.
Yeah, on the stands/rack/whatever, you won’t get the resistance which you will if it’s parked on pavement, when doing the 10-to-2 steering wheel twist. Awesome, Len…great to hear you were able to get it cured.
I have a 1997 Jeep Cherokee, 2 door, 4 cylinder, 5 speed, stock, 215 75r15′s. I’m not sure if the death wobble is what I’m experiencing. While driving any speed, if you take the steering while and just wiggle it back and forth quickly, it feels as if the rear end is moving more than the movements made at the steering wheel. Just wanted to know what you think. Thanks for the help.
Eric:
Could be several different things you’re explaining…but thankfully, none of them qualifies as Death Wobble:
1) Low rear tire pressure
2) Bad rear shocks
3) Missing rear sway bar, or sway bar hardware/links
4) Missing bolt in leaf spring shackle assembly
5) Loose U-bolts around axle tube
There’s probably other things it could be too…however, check those first.
Hey Kevin,
Appreciate the article good stuff to read regardless if you have DW or not. To make a long story short I have 1996 XJ cherokee. I installed a Rough Country 3” lift and never noticed any issues until I mounted some 31” BF goodrich mud terrains on 15″ aftermarket rims. That day I drove home I got the death wobble. Starts at exactly 45 mph. Swapped for a heavy duty steering stabliizer and adjustable track bar. Its like I wasted my money cuz the problem isnt any better. I cant see it being a tie rod or pittman arm. My next plan is Tires and an alignment (my tires now are pretty worn I have them set at 25psi) I never off road so I dont see this fixing the problem. For the most part goes away after 55mph too. Its odd. Any advice would help thanks again!
Jack:
Offset of the wheel, and the tire itself can and do have an affect on Death Wobble. Can you put your old tires and wheels back on, to test to see if you still have the problem?
If not, start hunting for things that seem like they might be loose. What track bar and stabilizer did you purchase? Can you reply with a link to the manufacturer’s website?
I live in California and take the freeway every day to work with my 07′ Dodge Ram 1500. I believe I am starting to get the death wobble and my steering wheel shakes violently around 70mph. Being that this is a tricky issue and my first truck I just wanted to get steered in a direction so I can clear up this issue. I’ve seen alot of articles about diesel trucks having this issue but my truck could have it too even though it is gas? Also, would it require different parts to fix it? Thank you!
Jeff:
if it’s vibrating constantly at 70mph, that may be tire balance, or a hub bearing.
If it starts wobbling after hitting a bump, then that’s Death Wobble. We’ll have some Dodge Death Wobble repair products coming up in the next few weeks, so if you need some of that stuff, e-mail us, and we’ll get you info.
I had the same issue with my Dodge Ram. I called the dealer and found out there was a recall and they fixed this problem free of charge. Its been a few years but there was an issue with one of the steering components. My truck was a couple years older but doesnt hurt to check with Dodge dealer/shop
I have a 02 TJ with 4.5 lift and 09 JK axles I had for 3 years worked good had a longer track bar and tie rod installed back then no Problems , I few months ago I developed death wobble , then I replaced the steering stabilizer with lifetime warranty from Midas , that fixed , for a while , now I have wondering steering instead of DW ? goes from passenger side then I start to correct then goes to other D rivers side . on a curve it seems to hold steady ? crazy . what was lose Bushing at Drag link to pit man arm stock rubber but it tight I have changed and lower controllers arms both r tight now . Still wondering from side to side ( Tried the String alignment trick ) it appears that one drivers side front wheel is a 1/4 of an inch out , could this be the problem ? and is the alignment supposed to be 1/8 toe in ? herd that a couple of times ?
I have 35 inch tires and also I have a 3 link on 4 inch stretch kit for rear axle
Yeah, sounds like your toe-in got kicked out of position. How long has it been since you had a proper alignment? If it’s been a while, have them put it on a rack and get it aligned to a lifted Jeep’s specs.
Also, those steering stabilizers are not great…
This only happens to me when I am going around a corner around 55-60 mph. If I hit a pot hole going straight at any speed I cannot replicate the death wobble. It is also pretty frustrating when I have taken it to a shop and they say “there is nothing wrong with it”
I am going to tighten every last bolt under the thing to see if that helps today. Is there anything else I can look for? Its a 1997 with 226k on the clock and it runs and looks pretty close to new. I just cannot justify putting my 3 month old baby in this until I get this figured out. I do not want to crash this thing with her in it.
Matt:
Again, just make sure everything is tight. You’d probably benefit from one of our KOR-9001 track bar conversions with the optional KOR-1199 bushings kit…that will tighten things up substantially.
my wife has a 04 wrangler with 270000mi it is a right hand drive that she delivers mail with. i am a senor master ford mechanic and have meticulusly maintained this vehicle, nothing is loose in the front end.. infact most parts are new, ball joints, u joints, tie rod ends. ive been using monroe dampners but they only last about a month or so. it never does it with new tires but when they get to 1/2 tread it is severe no matter how much i balance them. it is completely stock with 235/75/15 tires. she drives 150mi a day mostly on gravel roads, it does not do it on gravel only hard serface roads. i need to get this fixed for her safty. i am open to any and all sugestions or parts to try. thanks in advance
Todd:
A *VERY* tight connection between the axle and frame is ESSENTIAL, so I recommend one of our track bars with the optional SuperDurometer bushings. It’ll tighten up the steering substantially, even with stock tires on there. The factory track bar slightly less than 1.00″ OD, and not enough to give as rigid-as-needed resistance to “accordion-ing”…meaning the bar will flex in/out, due to the bend in it, to clear the area around the differential housing. If you have her park on pavement, and turn the steering wheel left/right from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock, you can actually feel the “accordion” effect of the track bar during tension and compression! The bar we use is 1.25″, and hollow thick-wall, to reduce that problem.
If she’s running more than 30psi in the tires, there’s a distinct possibility that running less would benefit the situation profusely, and make her ride a lot softer on the washboard roads, too.
Oh, and here’s a link to all of our Death Wobble products that will fit her Jeep:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_65
Except for the fact that she has a RHD…which means that our track bar will NOT work, unfortunately, and I don’t know of a nice, beefy track bar which is bent for RHD. Everything else will work, though.
I have a 2004 jeep grand Cherokee on a 2.5″ OME lift with 31s. It drives just fine but when I hit 45 or 50 and I touch my brakes at all the whole front end goes insane. Enough to send me into the ditch. Could it be bushings or track bar?
Sounds like you have multiple problems, Cole. Are the rotors in good shape? Even Death Wobble won’t typically “trigger” when you hit the brakes on a crossover steering setup like yours, and particularly at your height of lift.
If the track bar and the track bar bushings are not VERY tight, then replace them with a set of KOR-1199 SuperDurometer bushings and a JKS-127 track bar, and new heavy-duty steering stabilizer, and then get a quality front end alignment after the install…should cure almost all problems.
Here’s a link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_62
2001 jeep wrangler TJ sport. i had the front end done new u-joints, a stabalizer bar, and i had the front end balanced, all re-built driveshafts, and its sitting on 35 thornbirds. what else could be the problem for a shake that occurs when i give it gas. The shake starts at about 50 km, n continues until i get into 4th gear, then the shake decreases at about 90 km plus. could it just be the tires? or maybe the lift? im going to try n drive it in 4 high without the rear driveshaft n see what happens. any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thornbirds are NOTORIOUS for being HORRIBLE highway tires, so yeah, my guess is that it’s tire-related, my friend. They don’t wear well, they are nasty at speed, the follow grooves in the pavement, they are hard to balance, and difficult to keep from flat-spotting. As a “control”, borrow a set of tires, and see if your problems get better or worse.
i have a 98 jeep wrangler tj sport and let me tell you my death wobble suck i cant even go over 20 mph it wobble like crazy idk were to start my freinds tell me is the wheel bearings or the tire’s are no good but i did notice on my tires in the middle it looks like a wave it goes in and out ..but i need help i miss rideing in my jeep do u think i need a good alinement
Better have a good mechanic look it over, Adrian. If you’ve done all the steps in the article and you still have this issue, you’ve got something really wrong under there. Start with the steps in the article, if you haven’t already.
@JOSEAUGUSTO_15 @jeep__problems death wobble diagnosis and causes http://t.co/L4D7FPn0
@JOSEAUGUSTO_15 @jeep__problems death wobble diagnosis and causes http://t.co/L4D7FPn0
Hi Kevin,
I have a 2008 Jeep JK with a 2.5″ lift, running 35″ x 17 with spydertracks (1 1/2″).
I experienced the death wobble freakuently until a I replaced the steering stabalizer with an aftermarket performance shock…that lasted for 5 months…now I am getting the wobble back at braking and the occasional bump in the road… very frustrating ….Front end is tight..no loose trak bar bolts ext…..
I’m wondering if one of your products could help me out once and for all…
cheers
Shane
I’m pretty sure of it, Shane. Check out this link for the JK offerings, and kits:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_66
Kevin,
I have a 2002 TJ on 35s. I have had intermittent but violent “Death Wobble” in my Jeep after it has been setting a while. It started after I had my 35” Swappers replaced with 35” MTRs and replaced the Currie Steering with the Rugged Ridge Heavy Duty Tie Rod Kit that puts the Drag Link at the wheel and eliminates the “Y” steer. I also replaced the Steering Stabilizer with the Rugged Ridge as well. After all that, I had the tires Road force balanced and the front end aligned by a trusted mechanic. (Note: the new steering was in place a month before the tires went on and there was not the wobble.)
It has happened twice in a week. Once after sitting for a few days and it wobbled right after making a right hand turn, and then wobbled when I straightened the wheel out. After I stopped and drove off again it didn’t reoccur. The next time I hit a small bump at about 25 MPH and it wobbled until I stopped and started again. It didn’t occur after driving off again this time either.
Thank You in advance,
Don
Don:
If you’re getting it at 25mph, then your case is pretty severe! If it ONLY happens when it’s been sitting a while, the only thing I can think of is the sidewalls are not “warm” and are less flexible when cold. No other parts (aside from rubber) would behave in this way. Have you considered a dual steering stabilizer? We don’t have one for the TJ, however, others do.
Hi Kevin,
I stumbled upon your website and am wondering if you could help. My parents just purchased a 2012 Diesel Cummins Dodge Ram 3500 ST (4×4 Crew Cab 8 foot box). They will be using it to tow a 12000 lb fifth wheel trailer. I have since read in Lemon-Aid and all over the internet about the dangerous “death wobble” issue with Dodge Rams and am very concerned. Do you know if this issue has been resolved in the 2012 models? My parents were looking forward to taking my kids out camping but now my mom (and I!) are worried about everyone’s safety. (Dealership of course says no need to worry). Thanks for your help.
Christina:
If they have a problem, they should immediately take it back to the dealer. I think the 3500 has a leaf sprung front end, and not coils…so no, they should not be “prone” to the problem…though I’m going from memory on the configuration. Leafs: no problem. Coils: Maybe
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
I have an 07 Sahara I’ve changed steering dampener shock and front shocks,it is better but not fixed now rather than at 45 mph it’s at 65mph.Is tire pressure better at max pressure or minimum?
If you have larger-than stock tires, then you can reduce pressure, since you have more air volume (look up Boyle’s Law). Even if you have stock tires, you can reduce it a little bit and still be “safe” as long as you don’t go enough to generate heat on the tire at freeway speeds.
Hey, I don’t have a Jeep, but was hoping you could help me diagnose my problem. I have an ’05 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab Z71 4WD with a 5″ Pro Comp lift. The truck has 49K miles and I am currently running BFG 315/70/17 A/T’s w/30 psi. I had never experienced death wobble or any other suspension problems until last week when I was on a road trip to Yellowstone. I was on a 10 degree downgrade and was braking and decelerating from approx. 45 mph when my front end went nuts and I thought for sure I was going to lose my entire front end. This occurred until I was able to slow down to below 10 mph, but started again slightly once I gained speed and decelerated again, but to a far less extint. I had no problems the rest of the trip, but never climbed or descended grades greater than 7 degrees. I was planning on replacing the tires soon due to them beginning to wear more than I like, but I was wondering if new tires and alignment would be your first suggestion, or would you suggest some other troubleshooting first (as the tires don’t absolutely need replacement..I’m just kinda picky about the wear/tread depth that I run). Also, I was wondering if you thought the 10 degree descending angle had something to do with this or do you think that was just coincidence. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Steve:
Check your bushings, bolts on the lift kit cradle, and especially the idler-arm bushings.
Hubby has a 2006 Dodge Ram MegaCab pick-up. Nothing scarier than the DW with three young children in vehicle! We’ve had just about whole front end replaced to “cure” it as well as new tires. Seemed “cured” for months until he let tire pressure get 15-20 psi BELOW specs. Hopefully maintaining proper tire pressure will keep it “cured”
I have a stock ’99 XJ with 333876 miles on it, and it has never had any handling issues until just two months ago. If I hit a bump or a dip or a hole at just the right angle over 55 mph, I get serious front end shake that increases in intensity until I come to a full stop. No lift, no aftermarket add ons, no nothing. About the only thing that has changed is I got four new regular road tread tires in January. I checked the front end for play in the tie rod and trackbar and everything seems tight. We’ve got a lot of rough road in New York…
Yeah, sounds like Death Wobble to me, Otto. I’m surprised you have 333k miles and have never had it…that in itself is pretty amazing!
i have 99 TJ and 04 WJ both have had death wobble off and on since new. what do you use for toe specs on each
i have found that warped rotors are also one more part of the cause
found your death wobble info very usefull
thanks keith
sorry for leaving out very important info
99 Tj 3 inch lift
04 WJ 2 inch lift
thanks keith
Just e-mailed you some info, Keith, on how to figure it.
Hey Kevin,
I have a question I wanted to throw out there. I have an 03 WJ(2″ BB JKS TB) and dealt with DW for a bit. I installed your anti DW kit which helped a LARGE amount. A set of new and larger tires(31′s) were helpful as well. My question is about how Upper Control arms work and if they can be a factor in DW. Is it at all possible that Upper Control arms with slop on a WJ can be a factor? I have seen people mention this in WJ DW forums before and wanted to get your thoughts. I am working on a write up on WJ DW and feel that the I don’t fully under stand the effect of loose Upper Control Arms on the suspension of a WJ. Thanks!
Essentially, ANYTHING underneath that has even a LITTLE bit of slop in it can be the “trigger” for Death Wobble, so if you have bad bushings in your upper or lower control arms, yes, those should be replaced as well, Chris. Allowing the axle to twist one direction, then “spring back” in the opposite direction is the trigger mechanism which begins that oscillation we know and love, which we call “Death Wobble”.
Understood. Thanks for the information!
Hello Kevin,
Congratulations on your web site and the information you’ve made available to us that haven’t many clues on this serious problem.
I’ve just finished reading the entire contents of your web pages with the aim of trying to come up with a solution to my own version of the “Death Wobble”.
I drive a totally unmodified ’96 ZG 4 litre Grand Cherokee Laredo with just over 303,000 kilometres (188.,205 miles), except for the addition of alloy wheel spacers (PCD 114.3) that are the maximum width without causing the Cooper tyres to rub on any of the guards. They are a perfect fit.
The vehicle is always serviced and treated like it was new. It has to get me to the office each day, which is a return trip of 80km (50 miles) on roads that vary from tarmac to dirt and gravel.
The spacers were installed in March 2012, but in the last six weeks, I’ve experienced two instances of DW, both at approximately the same speed of 100kms (62 miles per hour). On both occasions, the steering wheel shook dreadfully left to right to left until I slowed down to almost zero. When the DW occurred, there was no braking involved.
The country Australian road, which I use everyday, is a pretty ordinary stretch with very slight humps and bumps. However, most of these are on the left-hand side of the road.
I’ve also noticed during the last few days, that the right CV joint is clicking away merrily when I slowly turn right and this problem is being addressed this week.
Is it possible that one, or both, of these issues could cause the DW problem? When the Jeep has the new CV installed, my mechanic will be asked to check EVERYTHING under the front for loose or worn components.
Once again, thank you for the fantastic information shown here.
Best regards,
David F-R
Hey there, David. Great to hear from you! For a right-hand drive Jeep like you have, bumps on the left-hand side of the Jeep (which is the passenger side in your case), are the ones that are going to trigger it.
The bad news is that I highly doubt that the CV joint has anything to do with it, however that is important to get repaired right away. While your mechanic is underneath, have him check the toe in alignment.
Wheel spacer offset changes the geometry under the Jeep, and can cause issues, however, I don’t think your wheel spacers are the only thing causing the problem right now. My guess is you probably get something in the road, and tweaked the alignment a little bit.
Hey Kevin….I have a 97 TJ and I just installed a Rubicon Express 3.5″ Stamdard Coil System….The only other component I added was the Rubicon Express adjustable front track bar with a heim joint at the frame mount….I have death wobble that seems to only be initiated when I hit a signiifcant bump on the right side….Did not have it before the lift…..I have done the under the front end inspection and have loosend and retorqued all of the bolts…..When the steering wheel is turned side to side, everything seems fine…..There is maybe 1/16″ of movement in the track bar at the axle mount. This seems to be from the bushing compressing….Is that little bit of movement acceptable or should there be no movement at all…. Also, the RE track bar required drilling out the frame mount to 5/8″ to install the heim joint….Can I still switch to the JKS trackbar if I need to?…..And. If I keep the RE track bar, can I replaced the axle end bushing with your HardKor bushings?….Thanks for your help…..Oh, one more thing…If I purchased one of your death wobble kits, would I need the one for 1 to 3.5″ of lift or the one for 4″ or more…I am told the RE 3.5″ lift actually gives you 4″…and again, thanks……Rob D.
Rob: I think installing our KOR-1189 SuperDurometer bushing kit in the RE track bar makes sense, since everything is installed. The JKS bar also requires drilling, however, IIRC, it’s 9/16″, not 5/8″…so it would fit loosely unless welded up and re-drilled. Even our SuperDurometer bushings flex a LITTLE bit…so I am not able to tell you if 1/16″ is “good” or “bad”…however, getting rid of every bit of flex possible is key to getting rid of Death Wobble. I’d go with the 4″ JKS bar, if you needed to swap.
Trying to change the stabilizer shock in a 2000 cherokee, I can’t get the tapered bolt out of the linkage. I’ve tried BFH and that seems to be the remedy that most suggest but it’s not budging. Would drilling it out be effective or would that allow too much play for the new shock? Any suggestions would be appreciated
A loaner Tie Rod Tool from O’Reilly Auto (or Autozone) works really well. Some of those buggers are rusted in…takes some effort to get it out. I would not drill out the hole…you want to keep the taper, if possible. You could cut off the bolt on both ends with a grinder, and then drill out the center of the taper, relieving the stress, and popping it out, I suppose, if the TRE tool won’t work for you.
I used a mapp torch for 5 minote glowing deep red, then a puller and an air wrench
I did the same thing. The bolt from the stabalizer is threaded into the linkage. It’s not a tapered bolt.
@Nomad_Scry Hey, do you think you could do this? http://t.co/45K0LEJZ
Ok I’ll start with what I have 98 tj 3.5 Rubicon exp lift 33×12.50-15 tires I have had this set up for nearly 4 years with no death wobble. I recently replaced the steering gear and put a drop pitman arm on it. I also replaced all the steering linkage with new from grand Cherokee, drag link rod ends everything except for the steering stabalizer and the track bar. I also rebuilt all 4 lower control arms. I still had the stock uppers. Itook it in to get an alignment and I got it back with death wobble. They said they could not get any more caster with the stock adjustment. They convinced me I needed adjustable upper control arms on the front so I had them do it trying to fix the DW that I never had before. They went from 6 to 8 Degrees of caster in and I still had the wobble. They said the more caster the less likelyhood of the DW. Well it didnt work. So we decided to go the other way and dropped it to 5 degrees, No DW go figure although it still feels like its trying to. Can you help explain what happened here. Again the only chang I made before the alignment was go from a stock pitman arm to a drop pitman arm.
OK I just drove my Jeep 800 miles into canada no death wobble but you could feel it wanting to regardless of speed then it happened at 30mph the next day it happened at about 40mph it seems to do ok untill I hit a pot hole or a bump but I have to drive this thing back to the states and its really starting to wear on me
my 05 wrangler is starting the death wobble. i checked the trac bar and there seems to be a small amount of play on the upper side (drivers side). are there bushings in there that i can replace or do i need to buy a whole new trac bar?
If it’s the stock track bar, Todd, there is no serviceable parts at the top of the track bar…you’re going to need to purchase a good quality JKS bar, with increased DW resistance for $200-ish, or the other option is the thin factory Mopar replacement track bar for $150-ish from the dealer…which makes the JKS bar seem like a steal, due to the add’l beef.
Kevin,
Do you need a front end alignment after replacing the trackbar on 2001 jeep cherokee XJ? Get confusing opinions.
Thanks
Any time front end work is done, I recommend having it re-aligned. Unless you were able to adjust the track bar to the EXACT same length, your steering wheel is going to be slightly to substantially off-center, which is not directly related to the alignment of the suspension, however, it will affect your turn signal cancelling if the steering wheel is off center. An alignment shop would fix that as part of their service.
Hey Kevin. We’ve got a 1991 Wrangler and we experience the DW when we hit a bump at 45 mph. You didn’t mention the YJ’s in your Instructions. Are the steps pretty much the same for the YJ’s as for the newer Jeeps?
Yes, same process, Chris.
Ok fixed the problem. We pulled off the standard replacement stabilizer shock and used a rancho one which got rid of the problem all together. Thanks!
Larry:
Just FYI, we’ve found that the Rancho stabilizers develop a “dead spot” in the center of the stroke, after just a few weeks/months of being installed. If the customer comes back, don’t assume that it must NOT be the stabilizer, since it’s new…pull one end of it off, and push it in/out quickly. If it has play in it, before the fluid begins to dampen the stroke, pull it off, throw it away, and purchase a better quality one…either an OME or the Hard-KOR ones on our site are very solid options…I don’t know any better.
hey kev- thanx for the answer to my earlier e-mail but i’m still having death wobble.. i thought i had a little play in the outer tie rods so i replaced that with the adjustment sleeve, and put in a jks adjustable track bar. seemed fine with a little shake till a bump about 55 mph got it wobbling to make me stop the vehicle and a few times after that. i am beginning to regret buying a wj and lifting it!!! what would be my next option?? i did recheck the alignment and all was in spec but i think to factory specs.. what should i align it at?? i have the most possible toe in staying in the green. so, track bar done (jks adjustable), steering stabilizer done (rough country), and tie rods done (moog).. i’m lost, please help!!!!
kev- also, forgot one thing. in the front mount of the lower control arm. the sleeve fits snug between the mounting holes but the arm and bushings have some play side to side. is this normal?? thanx again mike
Mike:
I HIGHLY recommend our SuperDurometer bushing set, which will reduce the left/right slop which may be causing the problem:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079
And, you should have ZERO slop in ANY bushing! I’d recommend replacing it!!
We have one in the shop now trying to trac down. Panhard bar was shot so was the stabilizer shock. Upon removal we discovered it had a huge amount of tension on the front end. The panhard bar was actually pinning the suspension toward the drivers side. So removed suspension fell into a more natural position. We had to redrill a new hole to mount it as we would have had to repin the suspension to install in factory position. Still has wobble. We tried toe in at factory setting and a little more. Caster is around 4.9 so we dropped it back as far as we could to 4.0. I would like to see it around 3.0-3.5 just not enough adjustment. all other parts look great not sure where to go next any ideas?
kevin,
i sent an e-mail saturday before i found this page. so to save your time here is te whole story on this Cherokee.. I’ve known it since it was new. the orig owner, female mid fifties bought it and seldom left the city limits of her small town. Said she was afraid to drive on freeways. I thought she was afraid of the highway. I didn’t know then what I know now! She had it to the dealer many times, to no avail.. Even though we were friends since high school she never really brought it to me. I live a couple of small towns away and she wouldn’t drive on highway. I occasionally crawled under and checked things out as best I could on a city street with limited tools. Never being prepared for anything but dinner or whatever. She just surprised me with “it wiggles, or I think something is loose”!! I would look and not see anything. It was box stock. She died in 2010 and it had 12,000 miles. I drove it for the first time when I took it to my house six months later, on the highway with no problems. It sat probably a year before I started letting a friend drive it, another female same age group. It slowly became her primary transportation. Driven mostly in city 2 to 5 mile trips at a time. This driver is at lot bolder and more active and has racked up the mileage to 55k, including at least one or two thousand highway miles towing a pair of jet skis weighing aprox. 3,500 pounds. I’ve driven most of the jet ski miles with no problems till this year. Digressing a little. I drove it when it had about 13,000 miles on it. I was on the freeway and ran over a spot where the pavement was broken up and missing (a giant pothole or series of them) not bad enough to damage anything really just and bad spot.. And wow,, it set up a wobble. A bad one that did not stop till I had slowed to 25mph. Swerving, gassing it, tapping the brakes all the tricks I know (I own 6 CJ’s, all 78, 79″s) did NOTHING to stop the wobble except nearly stopping in the middle of, of course a major interstate interchange at rush hour!! When I got home, (no symptoms showing the rest of the trip what so ever?? ), I put it up in the air and could find nothing than even remotely looked loose!! After inquiring at the dealership and a few Jeep buddies I made the assumption that the 10 year old neglected tires in combination with sagging rear springs and many potholes was to blame. After 4 new Goodyear Wranglers (same as OEM) and an alignment I went back and drove over the same bumps a dozen times at different speeds, no problems. So I gave it back to my girl. I never drive it but did inspect it carefully every oil change (3k) and have not seen much play in one spot. No problems however she would tell me it shakes at times getting on the highway. So I would check the free play, rotate the tires check the alignment, give it back. Then the other day I drove it,,, Ooopsi!!! What A WOBBLE.. Even on a perfectly smooth brand new road it will start without hitting anything. At this point it could be tire out-of-balance starting the shimmy. I don’t want to change anything that would mask it, I want to fix it!!! There is a little play, it is pretty much even everywhere and not enough that I would normally even alert a customer if it weren’t for the wobble!! There are no stress cracks or even paint chipped from around the steering box(I’m looking for movement) However I’m too tall for it and (have my turbo Cummins) want to sell it while it’s still nice. But I won’t pass a problem on to someone else. My thought is I want to change all the parts with aftermarket but I have not kept up with the market. I’ve looked at several sites and you seem to be the only one who actually takes time for their customers. So I’ve chosen you. I have a brand new set of mickey Thompson 12×34.5 baja’s that would look real nice under it. What would be the smallest lift kit you sell/recommend that would have new springs bushings etc? I would hope to recoup some of my $$ by the lift and a few accessories over just a stock repair. I really is a mint Jeep that will work out nicely for someone who wants it. I just have no use/room for it and don’t want to see it sit like my other toys are. But don’t want to just put a band aid on it either. It has a little over 52,000 miles no scratches, faded paint, or problems (accept DW). Never smoked in and not driven in winter, Never been off road except to launch the jet skis and our local State Park. It’s Too nice to not repair correctly.
Thanks
Bruno
937-369-8654
babalsink@yahoo.com
It’s Bruno again
I forgot to mention that I did go online and look for cures. I found the one that pointed to the track locator bolt being to small. I reamed out the hardened bushing in the track locator (lower end at the axle) to accommodate a bolt that fit snugly in the axle housing (I think it was 7/16″) . This made it ‘feel’ differently but only kept the DW away for a short time. I(DW) seems to have come back with a vengeance. It does it all the time unless you are turning slightly to the left and accelerating steadily.
thanks again
Bruno
I have a 96 gran Cherokee limited. Death wobble is something i was not ready for. Just changed the tie rod ends and it made it worse. going to get a new stabilizer and see if that fixes the problem. This is by far the worst experience I can imagine while driving a vehicle. To anyone who is dealing with this as well. be safe and drive very slow. death wobble seems to lay dormant at low speeds…very low speeds.
Yeah, it’s a bit of a nightmare, to be certain, Chris. Hang in there…we’ll get it resolved!
Hey Kevin,
I recently purchased a 2004 rubicon with 40,000 and the guy never took it off road however, I have not had any cases of death wabble as of yet. I did experience it in my dad’s 96 grand cherokee and I never want to go through that again. Is there anything I can do now to sure up that the death wabble does not come in my wrangler or is it just something you have to deal with by owning a jeep?
It’s part of the price to play, Andrew…no real magical way to keep it from happening, since there are so many different things that can create enough slop for Death Wobble to start up. That said, most Jeeps never develop the wobble, so you’re probably fine. Breath deeply, keep your fingers crossed, and Jeep on!
Bought a 97 ZJ with death wobble, replaced track bar and steering stabilizer which didn’t work. Put on new tires and that stopped the death wobble. So add new tires to the list of cures.
Right on…glad you cured it, Mike. Sometimes bad tires are JUST ENOUGH to put you over the edge, and allow the vibration to start. However, bear in mind that new tires doesn’t resolve the worn and loose parts underneath, which are the root of the problem. Just keep your eye on it!!
04 Rubicon ,2 inch lift, 32k miles is it possible to get rid of all shake and have as smooth a ride as OE? My front end was off the charts with toe in and ruined the front tires, then DW began. Big O aligned it to factory specs and put the back tires on the front, no DW yet but still some shake when a bump is hit. I would like to buy your 3 part kit but would like your best guess if it will clean up all wobble/shake or am I stuck with it for as long as I keep the vehicle? Thx
No, Rocky…you should expect a ride VERY similar to OE…(or BETTER, if you replace the shocks with some better quality ones!! ). There is nothing about a lift kit that makes it impossible for the Jeep to ride at the same quality as OE or better, assuming you keep it under 3″ on short arms, and under 7″ on long arms.
Thx Kevin , the shocks are Teraflex and came with the kit however I’ll look into the possibility. Mileage since the lift is only 6k so it will be very disappointing to need new shocks. I’ll be ordering the kit this week from you and we’ll see if further remedies are necessary. Thx again, Rocky
Hey Kevin,
I own a 99 WJ and this Death Wobble is awful on my Jeep. The steering stabilizer is brand new on it. Should I upgrade to a dual stabilizer along with the other components you sell in the WJ kit, or do you think the single will suffice for now?
Very hard to say, Jackie. I suggest purchasing the entire kit, and if you have parts you ended up not needing, sending them back for a refund, or credit…since I’m unable to tell you what you do and don’t need.
I have a 2000 Jeep Wrangler Sport and in the past thought this was due to my tires being out of balance and needing a front end alignment. I recently did both and still have experienced the wobble around 50 mph. Everything mentioned has been about 2004 or newer modeles. What do you know about the 2000 models? I have the standard oversized tires, but no lift kit or any change to my suspension (factory stock). How should I go about checking the suspension and what can I do to make corrections.
Dave: Death Wobble affects Jeeps from 1984 and up. Just print out that article and hand it to your mechanic, if you’re not doing the work yourself, and go through it part by part. Laborious, yes, but no other way to cure it that I’m aware of.
I have a stock 2006 unlimited with about 60,000 miles and I have had some problems over the past 6 months with this wobble at around 40-50 mph. It has been progressivly getting worse. Looks like I am about to get underneath it and start lookiing for wearing. I am about in need for some tires soon but i am thinking it is bushings or track bar perhaps? I have spoken with others about this as well and they have said similar things that I ahve read here. Glad I found this page as it has been driving me crazy!
Let us know if you need any replacement parts once you get under there…we have the best on the market that I’m aware of.
Hello fellow ‘Death Wobble’ survivors. I have an ’06 Wrangler with a simple two inch body lift and 32 inch tires. I have had it for about 4 years, bought it used…no problems even after lifting it. After the first 1,000 or so miles on the new tires I rotated them just to get my fifth tire some ware on it as well. This is when I first experienced the ‘wobble’ After some time it just went away and about 25,000 miles later I decided to rotate again since my front tires were going bald especially my front left. I just took my spare and put it in place of the and decided to leave the rest where they were since I wanted to have some tread on the rear so I could actually drive. I digress, the point is once I put on the new tire I have had the worst issues. Not to mention just looking at my old front left, now spare, there seems to be ware on it that moves in a spiraling motion as if it had a slight wobble for the last 25,000 miles. I am not sure if it is the infamous ‘death wobble’ or if I just need to get a balance and an alignment. I am also getting new tires soon anyways since my TOYOs have nearly ran into the ground in about 30,000 miles.
Eric: Is your steering wheel violently shaking back and forth after hitting a bump around 45mph? If that’s NOT what you’re describing, you may have a tire balance issue.
I have a question? My front end shakes all to hell but never did it until I hit a curb at about 25 to 30 MPH. And now a big bump in the road on my driver side shakes I do need tires and a aliments. Do you think I bent my steering shock
Definitely sounds like you bent something, Nick.
Hi Kevin,
Glad to have found your site, we have DW in our 04 Wrangler, and I’m going to put the hubby on the hunt for loose fittings. One other question, we live in Minnesota, and our jeep constantly overheats, even on cool days. We’ve replaced the thermostat several times to no avail. I had it to the Jeep dealer once and they told me there was nothing to do for it, Jeeps just run hot. Have you ever heard of this problem, or do we just need to find a new mechanic?
No way….not accurate at all. It was 114 degrees here today, and I was running the AC all day long in traffic, running errands, and my WJ Grand Cherokee (same engine you have, but with a smaller grill to let the air in) didn’t step above 210 F on the gauge. So, no…neither that particular engine, nor your Wrangler, are notorious for overheating. Might have a head gasket problem or water pump problem…but consider taking it to Dan at Burnsville Offroad…he’s an expert and then some!
You may have a small head gasket leaking or a small leak in your cooling/heating system. I’ve had leaks that would not start leaking until the engine was at normal operating temps. Also you can take one of the old thermostats and take the “guts” (inner working parts of the thermostats) out of it so the cooling system will free flow but still have sum restriction (This is for trouble shooting only and I dont recommend this as a long term FIX).
Hi Kevin…
I just bought a 2005 jeep wrangler rubicon I pick it up from the dealer tomorrow Its my first jeep and I,m so excited……Its all stock
Is it just the ones that get lifted that get the death wobble
Or is this something that I might have to worry about ?
Well, I think it’s actually something that the dealer will need to worry about, if you have any trouble for the first 6 months, or so. Stock Wranglers have problems too…but most often, it’s lifted ones that have MORE of an issue with Death Wobble. As bushings wear out, however, stock ones are absolutely able to have the same problem. We can fix it, if it’s a problem on yours, though.
I am looking for help with my 2001 grand cherokee laredo 4v4. i just installed a rough country 4 inch lift and now have the “death wobble” i think. when over 50 mph i get violent shaking of the steering wheel like wheel studs were broken and then when i slow down to stop it stops. the truck was aligned, i did switch to 17 inch commander rims and new 265/70-17 kumhos.. i first thought it would be the steering stabilizer so i just upgraded it but no fix.. it does this every time on the highway so my one vehicle cannot be driven over 30, as it continually happens.. i will check the front end more for tie rods, etc.. i also turned the wheel back and forth and the track bar seemed fine but i will check again.. please any help in the right direction and/or where to start first and go from there.. thanx mike
Mike:
No worries…it can be fixed!
Do those things in the checklist, and then let us know if you need help ordering new (or additional) parts. If new parts doesn’t solve the problem, we can do a phone consult as well, but we are 100% confident that we can help you get your death wobble problem solved completely.
{2005 Jeep Wrangler X. 100,000 miles. 4in. skyjacker lift. upgraded heavy duty draglink, tracbar, and tierod. swaybar currently disconnected (because death wobble bent disconnects). ECTED rear diff. lock with limited slip. tom woods driveshaft with yoke eliminator. 33″ bfg tires with 16″ rims}
I have recently installed a trackbar/draglink (both heavy duty and adjustable) and a heavy duty adjustable tracbar. I had deathwobble on occasion before this install, but now that these new parts are installed, i can’t drive over 30mph without getting horrible death wobble? so bad that my front tires shake so violently, it sounds like someone is doing a brakestand in front of me and i can barely hold the wheel. complete loss of control. im still trying adjustments and tire size changes to remedy this problem. the odd thing is that the problem was not as bad with the stock, worn out, tierod ends as it is now with all new parts?? anyway… i just wanted to comment on your quote about lower tire pressure causing less death wobble. in my case (before installation of new front end parts) the lower my tire pressure is, the better my chance of experiencing death wobble. when i inflate my tires to 33psi. or more, no deathwobble. 32psi., once in a while. less than 32psi., unpredictable and more occuring death wobble. maybe its only in my case, but since i have had my 33″ tires, i have to run over 32pi. of pressure to rid my jeep of the death wobble. actaully… none of it makes sense to me anymore. I am at the point that i am gonna just keep making payments toward the $8,000 i still owe ($15,000 retail), and buy a cheap car to get back and forth to work. i will only use my wrangler to offroad or when i dont mind driving 30mph to get where i am going. —-> by the way… today i switched back to my stock size 30” tires with 15” rims and the death wobble still exsists at speeds over about 35mph. go figure?? Peace
Jake:
I supposed it’s possible that your alignment is SO FAR off, that actually adding pressure allows the tire to “skip” over impurities in the pavement, rather than “grabbing”, like it might with more inflation. What brand track bar did you install? Was it also Skyjacker? Do you happen to know if our SuperDurometer bushings will fit inside it? If so, that may be a way to tighten down the slop. Sounds to me like the bushings that were included in the new track bar (or the relocation mount?) is allowing MORE play than the factory setup did. We have a KOR-1189-S kit which includes sleeves and new 9/16″ Grade 8 bolts, located on our site here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079
Get that front end alignment checked. If you eye-balled it after replacing the tie rod, drag link, and tie rod ends, and didn’t get it properly dialed in, that COULD be the root of the problem. And, consider getting a secondary stabilizer on there…which would help a lot. (I think Rancho sells one?)
I have 99 tj with a 2 inch lift. I got new tires for the front and a alinement done then I had the wobbles. I had to replace the steering stabilizer and did a alinement. And still had it but worse now. Also the right front tire the top is leaning in and not straight up and down. How could I fix the wobbles and the tire leaning in?
Kevin:
If you’ve done everything in the article already, and still have the wobbles, let me know, and we’ll figure out a solution for you. Following that step by step normally cures the problem.
Regarding the tire leaning in…you may have a bent axle tube. If it’s enough to notice with your raw eyeball, it’s possible that it was damaged on a curb, rock, or something else. What did the alignment guys say? Offset balljoints are available for problems like this…however, if it’s more than a few degrees off, you’re going to have to pay someone to heat it and bend it back into shape…probably an old-school alignment shop with a torch…perhaps a hot-rod shop could accommodate you.
I have done everything step by step amd it still happens bout now it is from about 45 to 52 or so mph it still wobbles. The tire leaning in I will have a body shop work on it. I want to get new ball joints but the ones on it are still good and so are the tie rod ends and track bar.
Kevin,
At 50+ mph and the right combination of bump and I’m into “death wobble”. I have all new tie rods (4), new steering damper and I’ve replaced the bushing in the track bar with a urethane bushing (track bar is 2 years old). I’ve tested the wheels for slop in the ball joints and wheel bearings and haven’t detected anything significant?? You didn’t mention the steering box itself…too much play?? Or front shocks?? Can either of these be ruled out? There are 4 (2 upper and 2 lower) stabilizers to the front end, are they a part of puzzle??
Thanks Bob
Bob:
Shocks are rarely the root of the problem…however, if bad, they may not stop the oscillation from beginning. If shocks are old, just replace them…doing so will certainly help with handling, if nothing else. Did you upgrade to our KOR-1199 or KOR-1189-S SuperDurometer urethane bushings? If not, I highly recommend doing so, if your track bar will accommodate them. A bad steering box could indeed be problematic on Death Wobble…particularly on the WJ Grand Cherokee. Make sure to mark off EVERYTHING mentioned in the article, and then post up again if you’re still having trouble.
Hi Kevin,
I have a 99 WJ which I converted from 2wd to 4wd. I purchased a 2000 Vari-Loc front axle and swapped it in, keeping my hubs. I also changed the coil springs to 2″ lifted ones (rear also), installed new, really stiff shocks and a good front stabilizer. It’s been driving fairly well, but tends to wobble, and recently is making clunky sounds over small potholes, uneven alleys and such. So… I have just ordered every front end component, except ball joints and plan on replacing them all next week. Well, this morning, braking for an idiot on a motorcycle while I was doing about 70, I got a death wobble which rattled the rig like a shark cage being shaken by six 800 pound gorillas! It didn’t last long, but was compeltely triggered by my braking. Now the rotors and calipers/shoes are all new also. I have 20″ rims with Yokohama tires and have no vibration at any speed normally. So… I don’t really have a question – replacing the front control arms, trackbar, sway bar linkage & main bushings, tie-rod ends and just to do it, all the coil spring isolators. The ball joints look fine, and off the ground, there doesn’t seem to be any play. After the wobble during this morning’s commute, I guess I should check them again! Thank you for all your excellent information. I feel very confident that I can now cure any death wobble should it occur after replacing all the parts I’m already planning to replace. Many thanks and kind regards to you. -Robert.
Thanks, Robert. I’m going way out on a limb here, however, it’s possible that the panic stop compressed the suspension so much, that you got to the point in which the front end was no longer perfectly aligned, and that *MAY* have caused the problem if a groove in the pavement was hit at the same time. (again, WAY out on a limb…a pretty long-shot, admittedly). I would definitely check the front end alignment specs after all the new components are installed. Thank you very much, Robert.
Kevin I recently bought a 98 grand cherokee laredo and after 45 mph it shakes. Now it is not violent but shakes. I am curently having a right front wheel bearing replaced because the tire wouldnt roll while jacked up. I noticed that when me and my father was checking for play in the joints on the suspension. We do not notice play or anything loose. Nothing is bent or damaged. I believe after reading about this that it is going to be more than just the bearing. Our friend at carquest says that a lot of these jeeps have this problem. The jeep has a lift on it im not sure what size. Not to tall. I dont see shiny metal or rubber in the joints. Just asking for your thoughts. I will let you know when it still shakes after the bearing is replaced.
Eugene:
It’s extremely difficult to tell from here, unfortunately. If I was laying under it, I may be able to tell you something specific. Just have someone move the steering wheel from side to side, and see if you get any movement from anywhere. Also, a good alignment at a shop who knows how to align lifted Jeeps would be helpful. Hub bearings have been known to cause death wobble problems in the past.
Hey Kevin,
I am realy glad I came across your site, I have a 98 Jeep Wrangler 6cyl. I bought it about 4 years ago and was told oh, no, no, nothings wrong with her, she runs great! Well I take it to the closest car wash place and as I’m washing the tires the damn valve stem breaks off giving me a flat. I think at this point I should have realized I was in for a ride from hell! So After numerous problems with this Jeep, changing the entire exhaust to the water pump, air conditioning, hood locks constantly malfunctioning, to the shocks just recently getting replaced. This is the most recent I have done until this last weekend. I was driving in town when I noticed I lost break pressure so I decided to take it to Firestone and have them diagnose my issue. They came back to me and told me that I had a leak in the wheel cylinders and that if any break fluid got onto the pads that I would need to replace those as well. Well they quoted me a bill of $350, $188 of that was for labor. I quickly realized that they were trying to take advantage of me because I am a female but little did they know my dad has been an ASE certified mechanic most, if not all my life so I know a thing or two about cars. So I go to the part store and get the necessary parts, change whe cylinders and pads just because I figured it was time. Well while I was changing them I realized that I had a bracket that had broke at the weld, this bracket is where my break lines run so I realize that all the off road driving and violet bouncing has caused the break problem. Now to top this all off I have another issue, yes the dreaded death wobble. I noticed it after I got off of a bumpy dirt road and began traveling onto the pavement. I thought at first I had a flat or something and just about crapped myself. But after slowing down the wobble went away. It doesn’t happen all the time but as you stated in your article I guess it happens when I hit a grove in the road. I have been looking desperatly on line for any help in determining the cause. I checked the track bars and most of the front end for any loose components but everything seems to be fine. I have had about 4 sharp objects in the rear passenger tire and have had it fixed and was told that all my tires were checked as well but I don’t know if they were all balanced. I was wondering if this may be a cause to the shocks I replaced? Could it be because they didnt realign the front after fixing the rear? I am a bit puzzled, I ahve a 4″ lift kit but I am very new to the whole 4X4 lifestyle. I have always owned cars. I have been learning what I can when I get the chance but this death wobble has me afraid that it could be something dangerous if I don’t figure it out quick. I have a 18 month old baby I take around so I am more interested in getting this issue fixed for her safety. What can happen, I’m sure they call it the death wobble for a reason. Help me!
Sherice:
I would suggest finding a local Jeep forum, and posting a question on there if there’s anybody who has had the same problem…because perhaps they can recommend a shop. Does your dad have the experience to do the repairs? If so, just print out the article, take it to him, and he can do all repairs for you, I’m guessing. there was nothing in your post that would allow me to immediately point out one thing, or something else. It really just needs to be fully inspected.
Great site, wish i found it a month ago. Here is my tale of woe, have a 2000 Cherokee Freedom (not Grand Cherokee) that developed a DW between 50-60 mph. Accelerating above 60 would make it go away but between those speeds it was pretty severe. First trip to my mechanic they couldn’t find anything wrong so they balanced and rotated the tires. No change. Second visit they found play in the track bar and drag link end where it attaches to the Pitman arm. Replaced both, no change. Mechanic found a service bulletin from Jeep to replace upper and lower control arms when no other issues can be found. Replaced those and the DW went away between 50-60 but now shakes at any speed above 70. Not as bad as a full on DW but unsafe nonetheless. Mechanic says I should replace tires and shocks. Although the tires still have a lot of tread left they are about 5 years old and getting dried out and hard (I’m in Arizona) and I planned on replacing them soon anyway. Your article makes no mention of shocks, is my mechanic just grasping at straws at this point?
Shocks COULD have a part in Death Wobble, but they would be allowing it to happen, not CAUSING it to happen. Have a good alignment shop look at it, and align it properly, and that MAY cure the problem completely!
Hello to all. I have had the DW for years 7 mechanics and 5k+/- and still have it. I love my jeep. But im so tired of the mechanics telling me what they think. I dont care I have already had it fixed, form tires to stabilizers to alignmnets. If I heafr I need new tires or my rims one more time Ill fo crazy. I have had my front end tightened taken apart and put back,, guess what I still have DW yes you can change tires, alignment stabilizer but all your doing is masking the problem for a bit and then the DW is back.
Did new shocks too,,,, everything …,.. with exception to the Track bar thing. although when going to a me mechanic they thing its something else and my problem still there.
Does anyone know a mechanic who knows about the DW has heard of DW and can fix it int the Otlando, FL area. Most mechianics nto one I have been too has ever heard of the DW. Any ideas .. I just want to go in and tell them to fix trac bar but they always argue its something else.. now this mech states I prob have air in my power steering they werent bleed right so thats my problem really??? I think not….. HELP need someone in the Orlando Are, would be awesome…… anyone???
for anyone in the florida area owning four wheel drives I suggest looking into mudspace.com. only for the fact that it was started in florida and I’m sure the enthusiasts there could point you towards a good shop who knows what they’re doing with 4×4 vehicles.
hi KEVIN
can you help me please? I have a 2007 dodge ram 2500 4×4. Im located in Venezuela. Im a aware now of the recall on this trucks. I entered my last vin number in the chrysler website which it tell the problem. MOPAR STEERING LINKAGE http://www.dodge.com/universal/webselfservice/pdf/H46.pdf
anyways, here in this country doesnt give a damn. I have gone to dealers and they tell me any stories. My end link bar broke of the passenger side. I have put 2 ranchos steering shocks. Still shakes. The sway bars links were bend and there were no bushes. I put some new bushes but good quality. what can i do bud?
Im scared of driving this truck. =(
DAVID BATES
David:
I’m not sure exactly what I can do from here, but if you e-mail us, we may be able to work out shipping you some parts or something.
KEVIN
Hi- I am recently terrified of my recently just bought 2000 Jeep wrangler. at 35mph it shook so bad I had to shift down and hold on literally for dear life. We replaced the pitman rod with a stock rod- Go through everything I need to do it shook sooooo bad when we got the new rod on we thought that was all we needed so we got it up to 50mph shaking began then really began then we were swerving trying to avoid telephone poles.
I have always wanted a jeep I saved all my money to get one Im about to take it back down to the dealer in Utah and demand my money back.
Is this truly fixable and how much out of my pockets?
thankyou
Gracie
Gracie:
Unfortunately, without my looking at it and working on it myself, it’s tough to give you a price, other than “a range of $40-$400″ is typical. Have the dealership fix it, and give you a warranty on it, or have them give you your money back and start looking for another one. No reason why you’d have to put money into a vehicle purchased from a dealership!!
Could this Death Wobble cause the Jeep to flip? We have a 2000 cherokee and it flipped five times. thank God my daughter was not hurt. We had been noticing that when you applied the brakes at 50 or 60 mph it shook horrible.
Sorry to hear about your daughter, Susan. Death Wobble is not known to make a Jeep flip over, however, a driver’s reaction to Death Wobble starting in may result in rolling if the Jeep were not kept on the roadway due to obstacles, or loss of control, or whatever. What you describe sounds like warped rotors, not Death Wobble, though…
I had a similar problem with my 2004 Dodge 2500. It began to shake and the steering became so loose that I thought I would lose control at any time on the road. I was able to fix this problem by purchasing a steering stabilizer from Custom Diesel. Once installed, which was an extremely easy install, the vehicle handled better than new. This was a great product and a wonderful fix for someone with a small budget!
Hello Kevin,
I have a ’99 Wrangler Sport that was in an accident that messed up quite a bit of the suspension. After having it all replaced with a 2″ Teraflex suspension, I have not been happy. I have some serious DW. I can’t go over 45 and am very limited to around town driving. I have had tie rods replaced, had it aligned more than once, put spacers on/took them off, put different wheels and tires on, checked and rechecked every bolt and joint under there, and still have had no luck with fixing my DW. I have been looking at your posts about your DW cure kit and it seems to me like that would be the way to go….My main issue now is that I’m in a smaller town in Southern Utah and don’t really trust the shops around here to know what the specs need to be for an alignment with my 2″ lift. Would you happen to know what they should be? I want to make sure that if I’m putting money in to this that I fix it. Thank you for any help you can send my way!
So I broke my cv shaft and after I changed it out I got the worst death wobel I changed my stabilizer shock got my front end realigned and balanced…. It still is shaking my tie rodes are still good what else would be causing this all
Kevin,
I have replaced tie rods,ball joints, hub assemblies,replaced ss with the KOR SS and have welded washers to the track bar holes. I still have a minor wobble and can only afford either the HARD KOR track bar bushing or secondary SS kit. Which one in your opinion should I buy first? Thank you as your knowledge and staff have helped me in many ways already.
Ryan:
Well, you need BOTH, really, however, if you had to do one at a time, you’re likely to get slightly more value out of the secondary stabilizer system *IF* your current bushings are in excellent condition. If they are in ANY condition other than excellent, then I’d pick up the SuperDurometer bushing kit.
Glad to assist, my friend!
Hi Kevin
Great article, even a non-gearhead can understand!
We bought two Cherokees recently (for the teens), both higher mileage cars but also both very well maintained (state owned cars, great records). Both got the wobble after 500 miles of driving. We are taking one to the local Jeep dealer, hoping for the best.
But – if anyone knows of the best Jeep repair shop in or around Portland, Oregon – we would appreciate the lead! After reading the article, I’m slightly concerned as to the cost to debug and repair. Would prefer to go somewhere I could trust was really on top of this kind of issue.
We have a 1992 Jeep Cherokee we purchased on Craig’s List. The right front control arm mount has been severely bent in on itself AND has completely sheared off the vehicle. Thank goodness this happened in the garage and not while driving! Any thoughts on how to straighten this out and possibly have rewelded back on? Thanks! We THOUGHT we were getting a great truck. Turns out the guy’s 16 year old kid drove this thing in the mountains and must have jumped it! The damage to the steel is amazing. Please advise!
I’d completely replace the control arm, Desiree…it’s not safe to attempt to fix that one. The dealer has them available, as does many auto wrecking yards. If you do the latter, make sure to get one that was wrecked from the side or rear…not the front, as the arm you pull out may be as bad as the one you’re trying to replace.
After replacement of the arm, make sure to get a good alignment. You may find that when you do, you have more damage than ONLY a control arm. Normally, control arms don’t bend by themselves, and when they DO bend, it’s from a very large force, which may have created other problems at the same time.
Kevin, I would recommend purchasing all new control arms from a local auto parts store. I just completed replacing all four of my control arms on my 96 Cherokee classic 4×4 as well as the bushings for the top part of the axle where the arms connect. The reason I went with new was because they weren’t too terribly expensive AND the bushings were already installed on them so for me, piece of mind of having brand new control arms with new bushings all the way around sure made me feel a lot better and obviously my Jeep drives much better. Also, with a vehicle as old as mine it was deffinately time to change the bushings as two of them (upper rear, which you can’t see) were wasted, I mean destroyed, so lucky me.
Just an added FYI
Yeah, often, if the control arm bushings are shot, replacing the entire arm from a good quality aftermarket OE replacement part is a good choice. Beware of the bushings in some of these arms, however…often the bushings are cheap quality, and only last a few thousand miles.
RT @KevinsOffRoad: How To Fix Your Own Death Wobble #KOR http://t.co/gIqoVhjO
95 Chevy Silverado, 6″ rcd Lift 35″ 12.50 bfg Tires. shakes horrible at 35 55 and when i slightly brake. Death wobble is killing me!! Replaced The front end ball joints pitman arm idler arm. sway bars looked to be cracked at the rubber top. Ive Dumped ALOT of money trying to fix the problem!! Any Help Will Be Much APPRECIATED!! Thank You
If This Only Occurs When You Brake I Would Have The Rotors Checked For Tru or Replace Them , Sounds Like Rotors Are not Seated Firmly To The Hubs Or They Are Warped ,
Jeremy:
I’d check your toe-in settings, and the idler arm assembly AGAIN…on IFS Chevys, it’s frequently the drop bracketry, or the idler arm, we’ve found.
After 3 Wranglers (92-01) I finally got “death wobble”. Fix was the steering stabilizer, which I had to show/google for my mechanic. Trac bars and tie rods all good to go. Replaced stabilizer and no more crazy death wobble. Actually stopped the annoying 60 mph shimmy as well. Amazing how many people don’t know about this……some told me they traded or sold their wrangler because of it. Cost of part? $44.00 plus labor. Sweet fix and I love my wrangler again.
Glad you were able to get it cured, Susan!
ive had the wobble for over a yr now. i have a 2000 jeep grand grand cheroke laredo. it has a buget 2″ lift, rancho 5000 series shocks and a ranch steering stabilizer that was put on last year. one thing ive noticed in this dw case is, it doesnt do it in winter, and vibrates a little bit when it cool out. the warmer the weather the more often it does it. im thinking bushings or tires. goodyear suggests control arm bushings, said they were distorted. dont know how they can tell. lol anyway, any ideas? i was told trackbar was a major culprit,so i bought a new zone adjustable trackbar, which sadly clunks the dfferential cover on a sharp bump. most mechanics here have heard of dw but dont know how to fix it without spending a couple grand. if it helps ive had my head out the window watching it, looks like tires are going side to side. thanks.
Sounds like exactly the same thing that Erin is having trouble with, Jace. Yeah, you need some new parts under there! I’m guessing the reason why you have more of a problem when it’s warm, is that the sidewalls of the tires may be more pliable, and allowing more movement. Same could be said for the bushings, I suppose. The bushings start to “mushroom” out a bit when they are old…or you’ll see cracking…depending. Control arm bushings are almost never the cure for DW, however, so don’t spend a bunch of money doing that first! Give this kit a shot first: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_64&products_id=1065
As I mentioned to Erin, if you have trouble with it after installing that kit, we can talk you through the fine tuning until you have it set just right, where you don’t have a problem with the wobble any longer!
Hi, I have been researching this topic for 2 years now and not sure if it is what I am dealing with. I have a 1990 Jeep Cherokee Laredo (NOT a grand Cherokee!!!) It started 2+ years ago when had just under 200,000 miles and only when I hit 60 mph and smoothed out around 68+. Started simple- alignment, balance, air pressure, etc….all fine no mechanic found a ‘fix’. Now with 230,000 miles it starts around 50mph and well I dont feel safe going over the 75+ that seems to feel smoother. Now is when I need to know if it is worth the ‘fix’ you are talking about or start looking for a new ride…. I commute 40 miles each way on bumpy hwy 101 and up and down the semi-famous Cuesta Grade and have my 4 yr old with me! So safety is #1 priority for this fix!!! I have learned to understand my Jeep and how to drive with the shake but dont want to soon be faced with something breaking and leaving my son and I stranded on the freeway…or worse. Thanx for your time, I have been to over a dozen mechanics and Jeep specialist up and down California and Arizona!! I also belong to a Jeep club and will send everyone to your business this that brings up this topic
Hey there, Erin. Yeah, what you’re describing definitely sounds like Death Wobble to me…no variations. Let me know if the kit doesn’t solve the problem completely, and we can talk through it over the phone. The kit alone ends up solving the problem about 95% of the time. Here’s a link to the Cherokee kit:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_64&products_id=1065
Kevin-
Please excuse if you have covered this in posts previously. I have read a boatload but haven’t come across my husband’s (also named Kevin) model. He has a 2008 jeep unltd x that we bought used and about a year and a half later death wobble began. I for one will not get in the car again unless it’s local… VERY LOCAL. We have an excellent, reliable mechanic here in westchester county ny who has not had much experience with this (tho lord knows it is prevalent enuff). He has replaced the steering damper twice but my feeling is, as you say, the violent shaking causes problems all over the front end and the tires, tho new at the time of purchase are oddly worn from these episodes. When i say oddly i dont mean surprisingly i mean the pattern of the wear is odd. Aside from your “how to fix your own” page, are there any particular or additional instrux you might provide for this particular model (all stock). Also, if you could let me know if your “fix-it kit” would work on this model/year or what if any additions substitutions might need to be made I would greatly appreciate it. I will need to see if the car is worth fixing or if I am better off driving it through th hopefully glass windows of Chrysler/jeep’s headquarters
Jacquie: The info above is sufficient enough, along with the Death Wobble kit, to cure most every case of Death Wobble. It doesn’t sound like you have a bad case of it, so it should work well for you. Here’s a link to it: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_66&products_id=1086
Thanks so much for the reply Kevin. Your pretty amazing answering all these posts and its much appreciated by some very frustrated folks.
My pleasure, Jacquie!
Kevin- I have a 2004 Cherokee with the classic DW symptom: steering wobble after hitting bump in road while driving over 55mph. Before getting parts and rods and stuff switched out I noticed that my tires are 215′s not 225′s. Could that be the main source of my distress? Why would someone put the smaller tires on? Also, it looks like your DW kit is for 2007 and newer models. What can be done for the older models, espicially if you do not want to lift it at all? Thanks!
Hey there, James. The smaller sized tires would not have any effect on whether or not you have DW. The PO may have swapped them out from larger tires, thinking that would solve his problem? Or, the PO picked them up used and got a good deal on that size.
If you have a 2004 model, you don’t have a Cherokee (if you live in the US, anyway, as the Cherokee was retired in 2001). You may have either a 2004 Grand Cherokee, or a 2004 Wrangler. Here is a link to each Death Wobble kit:
2004 Wrangler: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_65
2004 Grand Cherokee: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_62
Kevin- Uhg! I was stuck on stupid when I wrote that. Yes, I have a 04 Wrangler! Ok, so I still have to lift it 1″ if I get your kit? If that is the case, what should the camber and toe be when I get alignment, or do I not need to do that on a 1″ lift?
At 1″ of lift, James, it should be the factory setting, unless you have wider/taller tires, which I know you don’t have.
I have had the vibrating shake for over a year now. Car repair shop states there is nothing wrong with my car. Vibration gets worse when I go over 40 miles and hour. I noticed in your article you did not mention Chevy Blazers as one of the makes that has the oscillation problem. Are any of the comments made connected to Chevy Blazers? Mine was new in 2000 and has over 90,000 miles. Could it just be old age?
Beth:
I don’t believe what you’re explaining is Death Wobble, so I’m not able to give you any helpful info. Keep taking it to different shops until one of them acknowledges the problem, and isolates it to one thing, is my suggestion.
Kevin,
So i received my dual stabilizer shocks thanks for the fast shipping but it didnt come with installation ininstructions and i dont know which one is the primary stabilizer or secondary stabilizer…. please help so i can install it and hopefully i get rid of DEATH WOBBLE… I also need to know where or how do i know where to mount the secondary stabilizer cause i know you need to mount it so that you can do full turns in both directions….
Daniel:
All of our install instructions are on our website, located here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/installation-guides/
Both steering stabilizers are the same, so it won’t matter which one you put in what position.
Kevin,
I forgot to mention that i also have a Rusty’s 1.25″ Trac Bar with new bushing on my 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I maid sure it was tight already and dont have any play on it but still
have DEATH WOBBLE….
Kevin,
Hi i have a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 160,000 miles and installed a 4.5 Rusty’s lift kit
with some 265/70/17 Nitto Terra Grappers and got DEATH WOBBLE FROM DAY ONE after i got the lift kit installed. Death wobble triggers at 40 mph or at any speed above 40 mph even on a smooth road. Lately what i have been doing is that i start off slow and let off the gas when about to hit 40 then when i reach 50 i speed up but if i hit a bump or a ugly road i get death wobble like CRAZY. When iam lucky and going 65 mph and have to slow down for a red light evrything is fine but when i slow down to 40 it shakes my steering wheel but death wobble dont trigger.
I had already replaced my tie rod ends about 8 months before i installed the lift kit and they still looked good so i left the same ones, installed a new pair of bottom camber kit ball joint and new upper ball joints so that took care of all the joints in the front suspension. installed a new Pro Comp ES2000 stabilizer shock, done alighnment also 4 wheel balance and still have death wobble.
I already checked and made sure all suspension is tight.
also done a tire rotation…. it didnt help.
I droped tire pressure down to 30 psi and worked alote better but the next day back to the death wobble so i droped tire pressure to 28 psi and still death wobble.
I bought and installed the Rusty’s lift kit 3 months ago and am really FRUSTRATED already and am tired of spending money on things that dont work so can you please HELP ME KEVEN…. THANK YOU.
It sounds to me like maybe your stabalizer shocks may not be assembled correctly, or maybe theyre bad. If youve replaced the lift kit itself that shouldve fixed it. Im guessing it didnt. What it should do is flex a small bit when you are driving on a flat road. You may just have a bad suspension. Like it says up top check your track bar, not sure what youve done yourself. I dont really understand how it stops when you go over 40 mph it should stay consistent or atleast mine did. It does make sense that once you hit a bump though that your jeep shakes. Im not sure what it is.
Daniel:
Sorry to hear. Sometimes lift manufacturers have “special suggestions” on how to cure DW after the install of their lift kit. Did you already discuss it with Rusty’s directly?
Diagnosing it from afar is tough, but I agree with Ian, in that the steering stabilizer may not be up to the task. I’d also add that a front end alignment needs to be done by a 4wd store, or an alignment shop that knows how to set the alignment properly on lifted Jeeps. It’s possible that the alignment guys set it to the factory specs, which will increase the propensity for Death Wobble. We don’t install ProComp stabilizers at all…we’ve found them very ineffective.
Our kits are about 95% effective in curing Death Wobble once installed. I know it’s an additional expense on top of what you already paid for the lift kit, but it may be money well spent to you, so that you don’t have to deal with it any longer…I dunno. Here’s a link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_62
Our kit mentioned above, also comes with a Dual Steering Stabilizer configuration, which will dampen SUBSTANTIALLY better than the factory setup with one stabilizer does. Here’s a link to the secondary stabilizer kit separate from the DW kit: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_69&products_id=664
Our kit also includes our SuperDurometer bushings, which reduce movement a LOT, even compared to brand new “normal” poly bushings that your bar would have come with. Not sure if they will work with the Rusty’s bar, but here’s a link to them, which comes with Heavy Duty sleeves and hardware: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079
Hi Kevin
I have a 2007 mega cab dodge one ton with a fab co 5 in lift — Put on by the dealer when I bought the truck in 07.. Have 35 inch toyo tires (at this time I need to replace the tires)about 3 months ago Before I drove it down to the lower 48 from Alaska I had the tires rotated, new brakes and rotors , tied rod end and a ball joint replaced and a front alignment done. Got here to NV a month later I hit a bump and thought my whole front end was going to fall off — slowed it down to stop and it stop It happened twice in the last month… could this be a DW ??? and could these worn out tires cause this??? thank you kathy
Yes, definately sounds like Death Wobble to me!
It is DW. My wrangler had a bad case of DW back in September/October. I got new tires and an alignment, it drove great after that. Well, until last week when it started again. Just so happens it was not long after I drove it from Phoenix up to Portland.
We have a one owner 1992 Jeep Cherokee Sport that developed the Death Wobble about two years ago. We do not see any letters behind the name but need to know what type stabilizer/damper will help to alleviate this terrifying, sphincter-grabbing ride. Our mechanic was talking about a double damper with bracket(s).
Your advice is respected and always helpful.
Dear Kevin,
So sorry for not reading all the posts first. Our 1992 Jeep Cherokee Sport is XJ series. I would still like advice about the choice of stabilizer that may help. Oh, tires are aligned and fairly new, so it isn’t the tires.
Thank you so much
Kathy
Hi Kevin,
I added a 2″ budget boost to my ’93 ZJ but the front diff still bangs the KOR panhard bar. Guess I’m going to customize the stock diff cover with a big hammer, per your suggestion. Any words of wisdom on how to do it properly? Pounding dents into the front diff cover is not something anyone I’ve talked to has ever done intentionally….
Thanks,
Jr.
Easiest if you get it on a hoist, and let the axles hang, but you could do the same with long jack stands under the lower control arm mounts on the frame of the ZJ. Use a 3lb sledge, and ONLY tap the area where its’ shiny from rubbing, which will be to the right (driver’s side) of the ring gear “bulge”, which runs up/down on the passenger side of the differential cover. (If you take the cover off, you can see clearly what you’re working with, which is also helpful since your diff fluid may need to be changed anyway.) Don’t tap anywhere close to the “bulge”. Here’s a pretty good photo of what’s under the cover:
I have a 97 XJ and I started experiencing the “death wobble”. It does not do it all the time but when it does I’m on a Highway in traffic and it doesn’t stop until i get back down to about 30ish mph then its fine. Ive had my jeep for about 1 month now (had 3 to this one) and drive it daily from NJ to DE. What can I do to help the problem when Im driving and it happens besides haven to drop my speed down or pull over (sometime i cant). Oh BYW nothing is changed on it, everything is still factory
Kevin I have a 2001 wrangler 31*10.5*15 It started its DW while Breaking at High speed. Now is doing it when at 50 some of the time.. could it be something other than what you have mentioned Thanks Mel
Sure, it could be a bent axle tube, a bent frame, a twisted axle tube, a mis-welded knuckle, and several other things, but it’s not LIKELY to be anything other than what’s detailed in the article, Mel.
I would like to know why a factory alignment on a solid axle front end would be a problem. I’ve
been a mechanic for over twenty five years and the only time we modify the alignment has been for racing and it usually destroys the tires under normal use.
Also own a 96 ZJ with a 2in. lift lately i’ve developed a bad death wobble. I have replaced every front end part but the steering box and have just bought one of those. the jeep has been fine the way it is for 3 plus years any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks Bill Mahony
Bill, the greater the tire contact patch, the more necessary it is to properly set both the caster and the toe in. Factory tires have a much smaller contact patch, so there is a larger margin for error. Off-road tires have a much larger contact patch, have softer rubber compound which sticks to the pavement more so than factory tires, and the sidewalls flex much more. In addition, all of the items in the suspension are further away from the frame of the vehicle, adding more leverage to the entire system.
I recently put a 4″ lift on my 2001 WJ and i insantly started experiencing the death wobble when i hit 40 to 50 mph. I installed a new steering stabalizer, adjustable track bar, 33″ tires, and had the front end realigned. Nothing i have done so far has cured the death wobble. Any suggestions?
Travis, did you already read through the checklist and take care of all the items on it? If so, let me know. If not, do those things, and you will likely be able to solve your problem. did the alignment shop you took it to know how to properly align a lifted vehicle?
kevin
i have a 96 dodge with a twelve inch lift on it ive replaced everything on the front end tie rod ends to ball joints and hub an bearing assymballys track bar i replaced with one i built from two heim joints and 1.5 DOM tubing with .25 thick walls and and fabbed my own bracket and welded it on the frame to replace the crappy balljoint design that chrysler made for the track bars now i still after all that i have death wobble could u help me find a cure im about to pull my hair out finding the problem lol
Curtis, we don’t deal with Dodge trucks as frequently as Jeeps, however if you follow the guide for the Jeeps, everything is very similar, and you may be able to solve the problem you’re having.
Hey Kevin,
6 months ago DW began on 03 stock sahara w/ 75k miles. Local mechanic sent me to a guy w/ knowledge of DW. Replaced upper/lower control arm bushings, traction bar, stabilizer, stabilizer bar links, balanced 31×10.5×15″… $K… DW went away for 5 months. Took to another referred front end shop, said all is tight, rebalanced/aligned and sent me out w/ 40lbs in tires. Oops… DW was worse. Found your site, read it all, printed a copy for him, he laughed… Said it must be the tires. I switched the rears to the front, and still have the problem.
Is it a tire issue or still something loose in the front end? I admit that the tires are 5 years old but have over 50% of tread depth. I don’t wan to invest in tires if I am still going to have the problem.
Any thots would be appreciated.
I’m guessing you hit a pot hole or curb or something that threw the front end out of alignment, more so than the new parts “wearing out” in 5 months. Make sure your alignment shop knows how to align a vehicle with larger tires, even though you have factory ones, and reduce the pressure down to maybe 28psi and give that a shot. Sounds like you have everything you need, aside from “massaging” the toe-in setting to what works for your vehicle.
Thanks for the prompt reply Kevin, very much appreciated!
I have already reduced pressure to 28 and it reduced the wobble to the way it was before I took it in. Since he probably aligned it with 40lbs, should it be realigned at the 26lb?
Thanks again.
Pressure should not affect the front end alignment settings at all, so probably not needed, unless it’s off due to an improper alignment.
@jeepproblems when your jeep has the death wobble..not fun on the highway http://t.co/FDNoz1bi
@jeepproblems when your jeep has the death wobble..not fun on the highway http://t.co/FDNoz1bi
Hi kevin i have a 2001 jeep grand cherokee WJ with death wobble, it happens almost everyday now. Its almost certain whenever i hit a bump in the road it will start shaking violently to the point i have to pull over! Im running 245/65/17 with 25# PSI it also has a 2 inch budget boost lift. Your kit says it will cure it 85% or so… if it dont what else could it be?
Without looking at it in person, I’d not be able to tell you, Justin. The kit resolves a lot more than MOST of the Death Wobble problems all by itself. If it doesn’t, for some reason, then you’ll need to have a mechanic go through it.
Thank you for the quick reply. I will purchase a kit and let you know how it does. Thank you.
DEATH WOBBLE with a 07 Grand Marquis with 68000 miles on the odometer. To say the least , it is not pleasant driving at 75 MPH in close traffic. Everything checked out 100% with the exception of new RF KYB 551600 strut shocks with only 15000 miles of use. Replaced that one shock and now, no more problem.
Let me tell you , DEATH WOBBLE is bad news!
Sorry you’re having trouble, George, but I literally have ZERO experience with your chassis. If you had a Jeep or Dodge truck, I could help.
I have a 2006 wranger. It is stock with 40000 miles and a death wobble. What kit do I need to fix it. thanks for any help.
You need this kit here, Steve: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_65&products_id=1080
Bear in mind that kit requires 1″ of lift, so if you DON’T already have it, consider picking up some spacers here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_39&products_id=1112 …or doing the “clearance” method on the diff cover so that the beefier track bar doesn’t rub the diff cover. It’s really easy…no worries.
2007 Unlimited 4 x, 66k. Just purchased. The standard transmission shakes a lot even with the slightest bump. Have you seen any issues with the engine or tran mount causing the whobble?
No, Lou..have never seen engine or tranny mount causing Death Wobble.
What about the death wobble causing the motor mounts to shake?
Hey Lou. You may want to check your rear drive line out. I had some crazy wobble in my standard transmission in my lifted TJ. I got underneath and the CV joint in the rear axle was worn (slip yoke elimination kit). After I replaced the rear shaft the wobble in the stick shift was cured.
I have a 06 Rubicon. I had a “wobble”, I took it in to a tire shop and had the wheels balanced. They said
my tires should be 35#. Still had the wobble. I checked the tire pressure, they had them up to 40# !
I reduced the tire pressure to 32# and the wobble went away.
Yeah, it’s amazing how many people are hell bent on a certain pressure in tires. They don’t take time to think about how the volume of air of a 35″ tire is like twice (approx) as much as a 31″, and requires half the pressure (approx) to hold the same weight. The mass of the extra rubber of the larger tires also plays a part. Glad to hear that reducing the pressure helped!
Kevin,
Sorry. Im also running 31″ bfg mudterrains with 32 psi and it seems to only happen when the road is wavy if that makes and sense at all or like corregations.
Kevin,
I have an 04 WJ, recently put on a 3″ IRO lift kit with bilsteins adjustable track bar and adjustable lower control arms for the front. Driving about 68 on freeway yesterday thoguth i was gonna die. got it realigned and check for tightness at shop. DW didnt start happening until after the lower control arms and the heavy duty SS IRO has on their site. were put on, i put them on after the rest just to terst drive for a few days. Started happening again today one day after alignment shop. Taking my WJ into my buddies shop who is reputable to check every thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Could DW be caused by upper control arm bushings??
RB: When you installed the lower control arms, it’s possible that you knocked the caster out of alignment. Though caster is not a HUGE possible trigger of death-wobble normally, in your case it may have been just enough. You may also want to lower the pressure in your BFGs as well…you may be as much as 6psi over the ‘optimal’ inflation.
Kevin,
Thanks for the reply. Turns out 3 out of 4 tie rod ends were blown out, so all of them were replaced. Fixed it and now i just get a half second wiggle if i hit a big bump. Should I switch out the Tenneco SS for a OME?
Didn’t see your question until now, RB…but yeah, the OME stabilizer is a beefier, stronger stabilizer with more dampening, that will last longer than the Tenneco SS will.
Kevin, I have a 2007 Wrangler X 4 door that has a horrible death wobble. I just want to verify that the correct kit is the JK kit shown here (http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1086) I really need to get my jeep back on the road but can’t drive it all right now! I’m ready to order as soon as I get the answer! Thanks!
Yes, BLL…you’re absolutely correct…that’s the right kit!
Hey, I recently bought a 99 JGC limited with a 3″ lift and brand new 32′s on it. I had a 99 JGC laredo before this one with the dreaded death wobble when I hit a bump and ended up selling it because after hundereds spent trying to fix it and nothing worked I gave up. I bought this 99 limited and i’m not sure if it is still considered the death wobble or not but when I get going down the road and hit about 40 or so it starts shaking slightly and wont stop until 55 or so, it has a new steering stabilizer on it, the steering is also SO sloppy and has alot of play, it also started wobbling pretty bad when I hit the brakes…between these two JGC’s I have almost given up on them completely. I have not tried the adjustable track bar yet because i’m not sure if this sounds like death wobble or something else.
– I had a Dodge Ram 1500 on 37′s that had the same problem with the slight shake but when all was said and done and after about $1500 it turned out to be the tires, but on the jeep the tires are brand new and have been balanced and an alignment.
Please help, I need advice! =)
Ashley:
Yes, does sound like a mild form of Death Wobble, which will eventually get worse without taking care of the worn/loose parts. Here’s a link to all the product we offer to help you get rid of it, depending on what’s loose: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_62
hey kevin my jeep is fine when i drive it at 50-55 but when im going 50 and i hit the railroad coming home it wobbles really bad and it did it for about 2miles and i want to try not to put alot of money into fixing it. i also just bought the jeep if u could help me that would be freaking awesome
I just had a death wobble in my 2004 dodge ram 2500. I have a 6″ fab teck lift. 4 months ago I changed all my front rnd parts except the track bar and steering dapener. I didnt see track bar bushings for my truck. can you recomend to me the parts I need.
Thanks Pete
Pete:
We don’t do Dodge pickups, but the parts for the Jeep are very similar, as should the technical article be…so read through that, follow the steps, and source replacement parts at a parts store with good quality replacement parts.
I had the death wobble on my 2000 jeep cherokee sport, I needed ball joints but hadn’t had the money til yesterday a few months ago my hubby had to replace the bolt for some kind of arm, and he was in a front end wreck a month ago and since had a terrible sound in front end. yesterday it gave my control arm or support arm broke off the axle and I’m trying to find out what I’m needing to fix this, one person says I need just axle assembly another says I need entire front end differential. if someone knows please let me know asap I won’t have the money for this for long. btw she is 4 wheel drive and 6 cylinders not sure of any other info. thank you for your help in advance
Jordan: If you e-mail us a few photos to sales@kevinsoffroad.com with your post above, I’ll check it over and see what I think the best method of fixing it would be. I highly doubt replacing the entire axle is necessary.
Kevin,
I drive a 97 dodge 1500 ext. cab 2 wheel drive standard. Never had any problems, and one day out of the blue the front of the truck started to bounce uncontrollably. Had to pull over and come to a complete stop to make it go away. Some time had passed (6 months or more) and it happened again. Only now it seems to happen every time i leave the driveway in the truck. Before discovering your post about “Death Wobble” I’ve inspected pretty much all the front end suspension and steering components. Even non-stop find myself checking the tire pressure every time I drive it now. The only thing i haven’t done yet to cure the problem is try having the tires replaced. Is this something that could also cause this problem? Also before i end this post to you I should add that it mainly occurs after making slight turns to the right.
Chris: Probably a combination of too much tire pressure, toe-in setting not set properly, and a bad steering stabilizer. I assume you already found the track bar bushings in good shape during your inspection? If not, they would be problematic as well.
Kevin- I have a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I am 1 step away from writing a Death Certificate for it. I bought it at 84k and now has 120k. It came with a 2″ lift. I drove it for 25k w.o. any issues of DW. It then started DW and I have replaces all front components you have described.I have replaced with new tires, new brakes and rotors, all tie rods, steering damper(strong one), new track bar with heim joints. Wheels aligned. It has been to a local off road group that completely understands the DW. They can not find the issue. The 1st for them. We have concluded that the Uni-Body most likely is compromised and I have come to find out there is not fix for Uni-body failures. This car has only been in the snow(on-pavement) and down a few relatively smooth dirt roads. I have had DW occur during traffic on a bridge full of vehicles….fortunately no one was killed. I will also say this car is immaculate in appearance and underneath minus the DEATH WOBBLE. It is triggered at 50-60mph as the left front rolls over a 2-3ribbed bump or pothole.
Todd:
Sell it to me if you’re going to get rid of it. Seriously, though…I have an extremely high level of confidence that there is no incurable case of Death Wobble…but it takes the right combination of work and the right parts. I know you purchased new parts…but did you purchase all the parts we recommend? I don’t want this to sound like a sales letter, but there is not one better part that I’m aware of to cure Death Wobble than the components in the kits we offer. When I find one that’s better, I’ll add it or replace it…seriously…it’s the absolute best stuff. Replacing stuff with lesser quality or lesser strength, even if the parts are new, is NOT enough to cure Death Wobble in many cases.
I beat the heck out of my jeep and i am always replacing parts. This info on the thread is AWSOME, its all great advice. I do see alot of people not understanding the concept of Nothing Lasts Forever when you off road. Some parts will always twist or bend if its not your suspension reaching its limits it your body of your jeep tweeking and door jams not aligned. My advice is to read this thread, then try what the thread says and if that still doesnt work, try try try agian……..The better you get at off roading the less parts you may not have to replace in the long run if you have a good parts. Always check your rig out before you get back on the road after beating it up just for everyone elses saftey also not just yours…..Just a thought happy off roading.
Amen and amen, Chris!! Awesome post!!
I have 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD . 4X4 SPORT UTILITY 4-DR 50,175 miles. The truck is covered under an extended warranty (thank god). The truck has a bad wobble when I reach 60mph and above. I took it 3 jeep dealers they said they found nothing wrong with the front end. The 1st dealer fixed some other issues i had and gave me a brake job with rotors. I was told needed new tires and one of the struts were leaking. I got all new tires (firestone destination LE ) and a wheel alingnment. The wobble was still there. So I took it to another jeep dealer informed them of the wobble and had them change my struts. They told me they couldnt find anything wrong with the front end only that i needed new bushings. So they did the struts, bushings and wheel alignment. The truck shook even worse then before. I called them back they told me to get the tires balanced. So I took to firestone for a wheel balance and had them check brakes because I was getting a grinding sound when turning the wheel to make a turn. Firestone told me brakes were fine they did the wheel balance but that I needed new struts both of the front end struts were leaking. I said that cant be because I just had new struts put on last week. So not only do I have a wobble issue I have something that keeps damaging my struts or the dealership charged me for changing them and never did!! I am so frustrated so now tomorrow I have to take back to the jeep dealer to see what happened with the struts. Can you please give me some insight??
Melonie:
Your Jeep Grand Cherokee is an independent front suspension, and this is not a suspension type that typically develops Death Wobble. What you are describing sounds like a vibration…not Death Wobble. Without looking at it in person, I’m not sure that I can assist, because this is a completely different problem than what we’re dealing with on this website. Keep taking it in for diagnostics…some mechanic will be able to figure it out. BTW, BOTH struts leaking after being replaced??!! Either the new guys are attempting to wrestle some money out of your hands, or the dealership lied. It would be nearly impossible for two newly-replaced struts to both start leaking in a week.
Wow, and here I thought the horrid vibration I was getting was…well, I had no idea it was such a common problem, lol. My 96 Jeep Cherokee started doing it a while back; ironically, right before, I’d had to put 2 cans of Fix a Flat in the right front tire, so I thought the vibration was caused by that having dried on one side of the tire, making it go offbalance. I replaced the tire, the vibration was still there, though, frustratingly. I pulled into my driveway the other day and heard a snap. Looking underneath the front, I discovered the tie rod that attaches to the drivers side had kind of…fallen out.
Let me state here that I know nothing about working on cars at all. I only knew it was a tie rod after comparing pictures online, lol.
It seems like it could just be plugged back in, though again, I don’t confess to knowing jack about how they work. Would that work, though, or am I stuck having to get an entirely new one?
I know the above sounds pretty vague, btw, so if I can give anymore clarification, let me know, and I’ll give it a shot. And thanks, too; seems like this post has gotten a helluva lot of visits over the past couple years, judging by the comments
Chris: if the tie rod end nut was loose, then the tie rod end COULD have come loose from the knuckle, however, the threads are probably damaged enough that you don’t want to re-use it. Definitely replace it with a new one!!
Kevin
I have an 05 2500 Dodge Ram with a Cummins Diesel in it and have an 6 inch lift kit
, I recently started having the death wobbles in it. I have replaced the stabilizer steering shock with heavier style,the tie rod ends had the front end aligned and still not helping. Was wondering if i needed to jack the truck off ground and put it on blocks take the tires off and start checking fro loose bolts? by doing this will it take the pressure off the front end and make it easier to find a loose bolt or nut?
Thanks
Greg
Actually, Greg…it’s easier to find loose stuff by having the tension of the weight of the vehicle on the ground, so that it has a higher level of friction…showing off the weak links much more obviously.
i have a 2002 Dodge 1500 four wheel drive with independant front suspension. i experienced a horrible wobble at exactly 65 miles an hour. i took it to an alignment shop, they said i needed lower ball joints. i replaced the lower ball joints, upper control arms and bushings, upper ball joints,and installed new Rancho rs 500 shocks. still wobbles at 65mph. I noticed some big “chinks” in all four rims( from 4 yrs of off road fun). got new rims, still wobbles. Bought new tires that were bigger than i usually run, still wobbles at 65mph. Your info was very helpful now i have a few more things to try. not sure if this is considered “death wobble” or not . i love my truck but cant keep dumping money into guesses. It sucks that i cant drive the freeway here where the speed limit is 75, i would need a ramp on the back for everyone else driving 80. lol.
From what I’m understanding, it sounds like it’s a consistent wobble, always at 65mph, and it always happens, right…NOT just after you hit a bump?
Here’s a few things that would cause the problem I’m hearing you describe:
1) Bent Wheel (you just replaced yours, so mark this one off the list)
2) Tire out-of-round (just replaced, but cheap tires could be the cause, and are often slightly out of round)
3) Tire out-of-balance (if you had them replaced, chances are they balanced them when you had the tires mounted)
4) Bent axle shaft (I had an Excursion with a tweak so small in the axle shaft, that I was never able to tell WHERE the “wobble” was coming from, but it kicked in around 60mph and went away slowly, as I approached 80mph.)
thanks Kevin, your right about it happening all the time, not just after bumps. the tires i bought were new Falken wildpeak a/t’s. A guy had them on his suburban and he was bringing them back to the tire shop the day i was shopping. He said his wife didnt like them. So they sold them to me for about half price. Now i’m wondering why his wife didnt like them or if that was for real. Perhaps he knew something i didnt. i’ll be going to my 4 wheel drive guy this week i will definatly mention the axle shaft. did you say your shop was in Phoenix ? I live just north of you in the Verde Valley. Do you work on Dodge trucks? Maybe worth a trip PHX. to have you check it out for me.
i have a 1987 ford f-350 4×4 stright front axle had death wobble the fix was track bar bushings moog pt# k80034 but that was after changing all links & tie rod ends first they had play in all of them but make sure you buy qualty parts moog parts went the cheap route 1st waste of money parts failed very quick the only way i found the proublem was when i put the truck on a alliginement rack & turned wheels back & forth the rearend moved very little side to side couldn”t belive so little play could cause such a proublem hope this helps eddie
Thanks for your feedback on the Ford trucks, Eddie. Hope this will help Ford owners with Death Wobble.
Kevin: I wrote you a couple weeks ago. I have the 06 tj. I’ve had a few different shops look at my jeep, they all say that everything looks fine and since the new stabilizer is still holding back the DW I can’t actually SHOW them the issue. I’ve isolated that “knock” I described to the steering box but the play doesn’t even reach the pitman arm, it’s somewhere inside the steering box and is only effecting the steering shaft. As for the DW my best guess at this point is the axel side track bar bushing on my stock track bar. It has a pretty noticeable amount of play and I’m sure it’s the original factory bushing, and after spending 5 years in Arizona summers it’s not surprising it would be worn out. Now, my question to you is, do you recommend I replace the bushing in the stock TB (if so with what kind?) or should I just replace the entire track bar? should be noted: I have no lift at this point so most heavy duty bars won’t fit.
Eh Kevin,
As you probably guessed, I’m from Canada eh! Anyhow, I just recently purchased a 2003 TJ Rubicon, with a 6 1/2″ BDS Longarm kit, and 35″ tires on Mickey Thompson Sidebiter rims. When I bought it last week, I drove it home at 60 mph, and it was a 200 mile trip home, and noticed nothing wrong. Yesterday I was driving around town, about 30 mph and experienced the Death Wobble, and had to slow down to a stop. It only happened the one time, so my initial thought was to get the alignment checked, so when I talked to the shop, the mechanic told me not to get my heart set on fixing the problem, as I may never get rid of it. I checked everything in the front end for tightness, and all is good, so I am hoping the alignment fixes it, but my questions are, can this mechanic be right? Is it possible to have to live with it like this? Is the BDS kit ok, or could it have something to do with it?
One other thing that I noticed, is that when I first start out from a stop, or when I;m slowing down, and almost at a stop, I feel something that seems to be a bit of resistance, that I assumed was either a wheel bearing or ujoint issue, maybe you can help with that too, or maybe it is related to the DW issue as well.
Anyway, just wanted to say I’m very glad I ran across your site, as you have abviously helped a lot people out.
Hey there, Darren. No way…every case of Death Wobble we’ve seen has been curable…but sometimes it takes a bit of effort and some new parts to get there. Check out the DW kits we offer for your TJ on our website ( http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_65 ) and follow along the article as best you can. We have NEVER come across an incurable case of Death Wobble.
hi, i finally got my death wobble fixed i attached another damper and changed my track bar.
thanks thanks
I have a 1995 Chevy step side and Michelin tires LXT M/S R15 LT and have the death wobble on my truck. It isn’t even a Jeep. Would it still have the same problems as the Jeep? Thanks, Linda
It’s actually completely different underneath, Linda. I wish I had more info to offer you…as I don’t know Chevys.
Thanks for the reply, i think its nuts on the steering box, i put in new shocks and the front end control bushes have been replaced, i need to travel far and i dnt what to do? theguys in my area dnt dnt what to do also. .
I have a 2008 Wrangler, completely stock. I use the car mostly to comute on freeways and don’t do much off road, other than dirt tracks … nothing heavy duty that requires a lift. I just started getting some loosey goosey feel and an occaional wobble at 93,000 miles. Can the bushings be replaced in the factory trackbar? If not, is there any other way to get the stiffer bushings without lifting the jeep?
Sure, Michael…the lower bushing can be swapped out with our KOR-1189-S kit ( http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079 ) , but beware of the upper joint, which is NOT replaceable. If that one’s bad, you have to replace the factory bar with another factory bar (a waste of money, frankly) or get a nice, beefy bar like the JKS bar here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=779
OK … I can’t find anything else loose except for a small amount of give on the track bar bushings, so I ordered your JK kit. My son is a mechanic and because this car is my freeway commuter, he recommends not messing with the geometry of the suspension by lifting it unless and until I decide to make a dirt toy out of it. So we’re going to leave the ride height alone and “customize” the differential cover as mentioned a couple other places on this site. I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks for making this great site to deal with this ugly problem.
Kevin …
Here is how it all worked out. The JKS track bar with the Hard-KOR bushings worked great. Just installing the kit made it so that the Jeep would not get into a full blown death wobble, but I could tell that the conditions that triggered the wobble were still there. The shimmy and shake that used to lead up to the wobble were still there. So we put the Jeep on jacks again and did a more thorough check. There was actually a little over 1/16 inch of play in the ball joints and the knuckle end of the drag link was popping a bit, as well. The tie rod ends were not as snug as they were when they were new, so I figured they were not far behind. So we put in new ball joints, a new drag link, and new tie rod ends. For good measure, I removed the Monroe Sensatrac shocks that were in the Jeep and replaced them with Bilstein 4600 monotubes. Then we double checked the tire balance and got a front end alignment. We added cam bolts in the lower control arms and dialed back the caster to about 2.5 This is not recommended unless you are running a stock, no-lift set up, but my alignment guy (specializes in 4WD) says this has been shown to be effective in reducing the chances caster flutter on the JK model.
The overall result … this Jeep drives and handles like a brand new Jeep … there’s not a shimmy or shake at any speed, under any amount of braking, even on some pretty rough pavement.
A couple of comments about the track bar kit …
1. We were unable to reposition the damper on the new bracket that came with the kit, because with no lift on the suspension, it just won’t fit. But we welded the bracket on, anyway to reinforce the stock bracket, ground a little clearance off the bottom, and put my old damper (Rancho RS 5000) back in there … it was stiffer than the one that came with the kit anyway.
2. The concern about having to “customize” the differential cover was a non issue … the JKS cleared the differential completely. Not sure what would happen if I decided to disconnect the sway bar and do some rock crawling, but that isn’t likely to happen anytime soon, so for now we’re good.
For everyone reading this … remember that there are two components to a death wobble … there is whatever triggers the wobble and then there is the full blown oscillation that shakes your arms loose at the elbows and sends you home for a change of underwear. The JKS Track Bar and Kevin’s bushings are rock solid, and a good investment, but you also need to find out what else is loose … look twice and look again … sometimes it is not real obvious and it may be a combination of things. Just be prepared to spend some money, especially if you can’t do the work yourself. But don’t give up … there actually is a happy ending to the story and a cure for death wobble.
Hi, kevin
I m driving a jeep grand Cherokee WJ 2001 and i have experienced a death wobble.i replaced two steering stabilizer the problem is still there, i have checked all my bushes they seem to be fine, could it be my shocks or any bushes, and further i noticed that there two nuts missing on the steering box are they suppose to there? and how risky is it to drive with a death wobble.
Thanks anas
It’s VERY risky to drive with Death Wobble, Anas. Did you already read the entire article, and go through the Jeep, point by point? And, what nuts are missing??
I cured my death wobble issue by replacing the worn out heim joint in the trackbar and setting the alignment my self. My xj is a 1993 with a 6.5 lift, i installed a high clearance long arm kit from rusty’s offroad with adjustable upper links (do not run it as a 3 link system you will be right back where you started) I set my caster at +7 deg and my towin at 1/8 inch. I have a steering brace and backing plates behind the steering box. I do not run a steering stabilizer, I have not had any death wobble for 38,000 miles so far. just the occational wander every now and then, probably time for another new 3/4 heim joint. The best upper arm bushings i have found that last are the factory replacments (upper mounts on front axle.
Hi, I’ve got an 06 F350 w/ 150k.
The front end breaks into oscillations sometimes.
When it does, it between 60-70 mph, is a LOT more likely on concrete as opposed to asphalt .
Death wobble or is it something else.
Thanks for your time.
Most definitely Death Wobble, Rick! Wish we knew more about Ford trucks, however, the Jeep article that was written will help you resolve it even so.
Hi kevin, So far so good on the corrected death wobble, thanks to you! Have a wonderful holiday season and thanks a million ! Your so right another jeep staying with her loyal owner! Before you and your help I was definetly fixing the problem and she was for sale. Now with your help-she isnt going anywhere but back to her heated garage!
Thanks a million-if I said it once I will say it a million more times”Your A Good Man”
Thank you very much, Danny! Merry Christmas and happy New Year to you! Happy we could help!
i have a 88 cherokee chief stock… DW at 45+, yes i have read… however i want to lift… but i want to fix DW and keep stock for 3 months just to get by, through NE winter, i want to upgrade track bar but have it be adj for 0″-4.5″ might be asking for alot but i want to fix DW but i dont want to have to up grade when i do a 4.5″. i just dont want to buy 2 different track bars within 3 months… thanks kevin
All of the items in the Death Wobble Cure kit will work for 4.5″ of lift. The only reason why it WON’T work on a stock-height vehicle, is because the thickness of the beefier track bar we include, rubs slightly on the differential cover when you hit bumps. This can be remedied at least three different ways:
1) You can shorten the control arms by 1/4″ in length, and that should alleviate the problem completely.
2) You can tap the cover inward about 1/8″ where it rubs, so that it clears the track bar. There is nothing but air behind this portion of the differential cover, so there is no worries about it contacting anything rotating on the inside of the differential.
3) The track bar can be lengthened slightly longer (1/4″ usually does it) than it’s “proper” length, which will move the axle to the passenger side slightly, allowing the differential cover to move upward/downward without contacting the big, beefy track bar. Your alignment will need to be reset after the install ANYWAY, irrespective of whether you lengthen the track bar or not, and this will NOT negatively affect the alignment of the Jeep.
4a) You can add on a set of 3/4″ coil spring spacers, which will raise the front of the Jeep up a bit. It may not COMPLETELY solve the possible rubbing, but it will help substantially. The part number for the XJ, MJ, ZJ, and TJ is KOR-KJ0-9107 and is available here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_39&products_id=1112
4b) The WJ Grand Cherokee spacers are part number KOR-9712-A and can be found at http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_39&products_id=142
That should get you going nicely! You’re going to love the FAR better steering response, too!
My ’03 wrangler has 29,000 miles on it and normal sized tires. I have the scary “death wobble” when I go 50 mph, but not at lower speeds. A mechanic has told me that it is probably caused by rusty front brakes which overheat and cause the wobble. I have had a new steering dampner put on but haven’t yet had the front alignment done…what do you think abut it being the brakes?
I’d suggest you MAKE SURE to take it to another mechanic!! He’s either actively attempting to take advantage of you, or he’s not knowledgeable about the cause, and making guesses without any sort of proof (which come out of your pocket in the form of dollars). There is no possible way it’s brake related. Find someone locally who has Death Wobble experience…this guy is not it…and you’re going to be training him with your own checkbook.
I have a 2006 Jeep TJ x and only a few days after buying it, used, I experienced a death wobble, more than once. The jeep is TOALLY stock right now. I brought it back to the dealer (Carmax) and they replaced the worn out lower control arm bushings on both sides, this did NOT fix it, as well as installed a new steering stabilizer (Don’t know what kind but probably stock). I haven’t had a death wobble since then (two weeks), and I have tried many times to induce it (train tracks, pot holes, etc) to make sure they actually fixed it, and it seems to have been fixed. However, I can’t help but worry myself that this is only going to mask the problem until the real issue breaks the stabilizer again. I had someone turn the wheel side to side while parked and noticed the axel side track bar bushing has noticeable play, about 1/8 inch of squeeze on the bushing, but the dealer says this is normal. Am I just being paranoid or should I just have the track bar bushing replaced with better ones? Or will the stabilizer be enough? Still no death wobble but I feel like it’s trying. I also had my alignment done and wheel balance (stock sized tires)
P.S.
I just got back from camping in the desert and on the freeway just outside Phoenix I hit a bump on the right side and the wobble started. It wasn’t full force but I think it was just the new stabilizer holding it back. Happened a few more times until I got to the dirt. On the Jeep trails I felt a strange knock in the steering over heavy bumps, especially when the wheels were turned. I don’t feel a knock when turning left and right quickly it’s only caused by hard bumps on the front end. It feels like something is loose but I can’t see what it is.
Something probably is loose, Will. You’d likely benefit from having someone diagnose the problem (perhaps at Carmax?) until they can identify what’s loose. One of our JKS track bars with SuperDurometer bushings will probably remove some of the looseness in your track bar, however, it may or may not remedy the loose “clunk” you’re feeling.
Thanks for the info! Could you take a look at this video I shot of my axel side track bar mount and tell me if it looks like it could be the culprit?
http://youtu.be/LjzRgvxclVw
The guys at carmax said everything was fine and this was a normal amount of play but I am suspicious that they just don’t know what they’re doing (or don’t want to do the work since it’s free of charge lol)
Just wanted to let you know the jeep is finally fixed! Mechanic figured out problem!After all the money and time I have invested, it turns out when the tire shop put those new tires on, they apparently never balanced them! That was the whole cause. All those new parts I guess werent a waste but I dont think I needed them. Now my big decision is; do I call the tire shop and compain since they include in the price to balance all four tires and told me they did? More than likely a waste of my breath to do that!Just wanted to tell you thankyou for all the help.
Great news! However, I’d be willing to bet a LOT of money that the balance of the tires was NOT the ONLY thing setting it off. However, I’m happy that you were able to get it fixed now that you got the combination of parts and alignment and everything else correct, and that you’re not having any more problems with it!! Yay…another Jeep saved from the auction block!!
You are the greatest.Just today I called the shop that did the allignment on saturday and told them it was still an issue. Told them all about your site and printed out all your great info.They are willing to go thru all the steps to figure out a solution.If you could speak to the mechanic personally I would be forever greatful.Merry Christmas to me (of course to you and your family as well) I dont want you to think I would ever sell my jeep with the issues at hand,im just so disgusted with it that once it was fixed correctly,I want to sell it.The funniest of all-I get so aggrivated with and wont drive it till my next mechanic visit and suddenly I get behind the wheel and remember all the reasons I fell in love with it the day I took my first test drive, I LOVE MY GIRL! I take her to the shop on Thursday morning and will bring along your article on the death wobble.It seems the average mechanics in my state are not so aware of the death wobble!Oh thanks a bunch once again.I will e-mail you with my phone number in the am. You have no idea how much you are appreciated!
You’re very welcome, Danny! It’s our pleasure.
This has turned into alot more money and headache than I ever imagined. Its impossible to afford taking it to the dealer and pay 90.00 an hour labor and them probobly still not fixing the problem in other entries I read.After replacing so many parts I cant hardly afford to buy your package which I wish I would of from the start. Right about now I wish I lived in Phoenix I would Have you do all the work on my jeep and BE DONE WITH THIS NIGHTMARE ONCE AND FOR ALL! i AM OPEN FOR ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS AT THIS POINT.Out of all the men in my family not one will take a minuete to read your article on the death wobble, if they did this hell would be over.Then you will see a for sale sign in my lil yellow beauty!Thanks once again!
Kevin-yikes I still need your help!Another quick rundown of my situation.Rotated tires at the first sign of death wobble.Got worse so we rotated them back.Decided to get new tires since I needed them anyway.Still no change.I then put in a heavy duty stabilizer bar.Nope not that either.My buddy shook underneath when he had it up on his lift and the only thing that felt loose was tie rods.Replaced them too, guess what wrong again.Then I stumbled upon your site and immediatly ordered a trac bar that nite.Recieved it in two days and had my buddy put it on.Then my traction control lite came on as well as my esp-bas lite.Steering wheel felt 90% better.Didnt drive it except to the alignment shop. Guys fixed it all up and all dash lites went off.Great thought for sure we fixed the problem,guess what -the second I got my speed increased the devil showed itself again in the death wobble.I once again parked it and dont intend on driving it! Is it possible the tire guys didnt balance tires ? What should I try next? Any suggestions! Thanks again for all your time.Your obviously a good man!
Danny, will you please e-mail your phone number to me at sales@Kevinsoffroad.com, and let me know the best time to reach you, and I will give you a call personally about this. I would be more than happy to speak with your mechanic directly as well, if you prefer.
Kevin: My 02 Grand has a Rough Country 4″ lift with OME stabilizer, JKS track bar, Bilstein shocks and BDS adjustable upper control arms. I’m running “Yokie” Geolanders {255-70x 17} at 28 psi. I’ve had my jeep to my local shop {reputible, 32 years in 4×4 business} several times to have them “exocise” the DW Demon to no avail. I also have a BDS dropped pitman arm on the vehicle. It’s going back again for another exocism this weekend. Any suggestions? We’re thinking of taking some castor out of it and I’m wondering if putting the stock pitman arm back in will help. Any suggestions I could pass on to them. Thanks. Dale
Dale, I would definitely remove the dropped Pitman arm. That’s probably not the cause of the problem, however I’m sure it’s not helping in any way, shape, or form. you would also benefit from our secondary steering stabilizer kit, for the WJ Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is part number KOR – 2092, available on our website here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_69&products_id=664 (that Link is for the 1.25 inch OD aftermarket track bar, like the JKS bar you have, not for the stock trackbar, for the reference of whomever else may be reading this in the future, who has the stock track bar. That part number is KOR –2082, located here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_69&products_id=665 )
Wow am I glad I found you.What a nightmarethis has turned into.About a month ago I hit a hump in the road (about 40mph)and my 08 wrangler shook hard over the bump and continued to shake for 30 seconds after.Thats all it took and here I am. My friend rotated the tires for starters,not it, got worse,rotated tires back,still there.Bought new tires still there. Guy at tire shop told me needed front end stabilizer,not that either.Put her up on lift today and looked for anything loose in front end, he found it, I think its this trackbar you talk of. Now I thought I read that you can tighten this,he replied that they cant be tightened due to no bushings?( I could be wrong )So anyway is it that long bar with lots of play that is located up front,the one that is closest to you while under it ?Should I have him replace anything else while he is doing this repair?After reading all the troubles people have with 08wranglers it might be time to unload it , sooner than later.thankyou for great info , had I not fallen upon your site I coulda broke the bank!
Actually, it’s a VERY solve-able problem…so no need to pawn it off on someone else. Just replace the track bar with a heavy duty one, like the JKS bar we sell on our site here:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=773
…and then upgrade to the SuperDurometer bushings here:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=1079
After that, make sure the stabilizer is in good shape, and replace it if not. We sell those here:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_66&products_id=417
And you need this bracket too:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_66&products_id=1102
Alternately, just get the entire kit, and have EVERYTHING you need to remedy the problem here:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_66&products_id=1086
An hour worth of install labor is all that’s needed, assuming they know their way around a Jeep, and then an alignment, and you should be golden.
Hey a big old thankyou for taking the time to help not only myself but the entire jeep family, you gotta be a good guy! I will let you know how things work out.Thanks again you saved me lots of time and money I dont have!
My pleasure, Danny! Thanks for the kind words.
I have an 89 jeep cherokee that had a problem with death wobbles. I rebuilt everything under the frontend during a restoration and still occasionally got the wobble. One day I was looking around saying to myself, “everything has been replaced” but then remembered that I had my rotors turned instead of replaced. I bought a new set, put them on and now the jeep steering is smooth as silk. No more death wobble for over a year. It makes sense; If the rotor is warped, to get it straight, metal has to come off one side more than the other; then it is out of balance.
Who knew!
Interesting. That’s the ONLY thing you did, after replacing all the parts? This is the first case I’ve ever heard of that…but thank you for posting up!!
hey i have a 2000 jeep grand cherokee wj for three years now and i want to put a lift kit in. i was looking at an old man emu 3.5 inch lift kit or a simple 2 inch bb lift i want to know am i going to have problems with the 3.5 inch kit and going to have to change my drive shaft etc. if so what. and if i just put on the 2 inch bb lift will i be fine i also want to get some basic pro comp wheels n tires but dont know what size/ tire n wheel setup i can put without putting added strain on my stock axle gears patrs etc. plz help me out guys i live in nyc by the way.
Max, there is no magical height of lift that you can stay under and have death wobble not be a problem. Death wobble can happen in a stock height Jeep. To the best of my knowledge, old man emu does not sell a 3.5 inch lift kit. That may be something that a vendor is putting together, but it’s probably not made by OME.
Kevin,
Can you recommend anyone from the Augusta Ga. or Aiken, S,C, area that uses your parts and can understand your methodology. . .if this DW is not cured I will sell this Jeep !
Woody, I don’t know anything about these shops, and we don’t have anyone we’ve used already in that area. But here are a couple of names that may be able to be helpful.
Sandy’s 4 X 4 Inc
1471 Reynolds St, Augusta, GA 30901
(706) 724-4294
Line-X of Aiken-Edgefield-Augusta
North Augusta, SC 29841
(803) 278-1600
well come to find out my steering box is broke
A broken steering box is a real big problem, obviously, but it PROBABLY cracked as a RESULT of Death Wobble…not vice versa.
(which is another reason why getting DW fixed right away is SUPER important!!)
Just curious , after reading the posts here, thought I’d mention mine .
October 2010 JK wrangler purchased new , done very little off -road, 50000 klms on the clock , mostly towing work trailer.Stock, no alterations.
Just recently , while rounding a slight downhill curve , went over a small bump , and it went totally spastic. Couldn’t do anything to stop the shaking , only bring it to a complete stop.
Cleaned out my pants,(well , not quite that bad but close), and took off very very slowly, ( after 40 years of driving , and over 40 different vehicles) , I’d never experienced anything like this .
Sent it off to the dealer, he told me he couldn’t find a problem . Got him to do wheel alignment and balance check, he said alignment was slightly out , and one wheel out of balance.
Now it just wobbles almost to the point of going spastic.
Legal eagle tells me if an accident occurs because of this , I’d be held accountable .
My confidence ain’t improving .
Chrysler wants me to take it back to the dealer, wants me to prove it happened,,,,, yeah right…..they must think I could have jumped out and shot a video while it was happening .
Anyways , just curious to hear a bit more .
Thanks ,, great read ,, think I’m a tad enlightened.
Happy wobbling .
cheers.
Well, you came to the right place, Barry. Jeep may well claim ignorance that their vehicles have a problem with Death Wobble, but everyone here knows the truth, as do you, now (unfortunately, lol). The JK Death Wobble package is the best stuff we’ve got to cure the problem, replaced all in conjunction and at the same time, and cures the problem probably 95% of the time, the first time. The part number is KOR-9906-JK and here is a direct link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_66&products_id=1086
Thanks Kevin,,, but what do I do ?,, mine is stock standard ,, no lift ,,,,,,, and what do I do if I lift it later???
Hi I’m a massive jeep fan and have a zj lifted 4″ with my own custom made £8 lift kit. I read your info on death wobble wondering why there is no mention of setting correct castor angle for steering as this will totally eliminate death wobble even with many other parts worn and loose. When you take your jeep for wheel alignment most workshops if any ever check this setting probably due to this not being adjustable on many vehicles. But jeeps usualy have adjustable length lower arms and so it is easy and free to fix death wobble if you have an angle measuring tool. A Protractor and a weighted string works well. There is a flat place below the bottom ball joint to work from and a backwards tilting castor or steering angle of 6-7 degrees from verticle is a good place to start. Zero toe (front wheels parallel) is also helpful. I have used this setup with huge success on several jeeps I’ve even been invited into a Chrysler workshop to show their technician what I did to mine. My jeep has done 221000 miles and is going strong on big TYRES jacked up without any wobble whatsoever and its totally down to castor angle setup. I got my setup advice from a Honda civic race car specialist who sets up track cars and I have never looked back. Ten minutes work ended several years of wobble at no cost beyond a few pints at the pub for the Honda man a few days later.
Thank you for your feedback. We’ve found that a caster setting of 4.5* to 6.5* is just fine. Adding more caster does NOT cure Death Wobble…it’s only one component of the alignment…and most Jeeps do not have adjustability on their lower or upper arms…some TJs and some ZJs had cam bolts, which helped, however, once you add lift, you’re going to max those out pretty quickly anyway. Yes, they help. No, they are not the “magic bullet”. Don’t get me wrong…on your rig, it obviously helped cure the problem, and I appreciate the feedback…however, I don’t want people to mis-read your e-mail and think that a caster setting of between 6* and 7* will magically fix their Death Wobble problems, even if they have parts that need to be replaced. We’ve tested caster settings anywhere from 3.5* to 8.0*, and found that changing it has VERY little to do with curing Death Wobble on 80+% of the rigs we tested. To reiterate, 80% of the time, caster was NOT a factor. Toe-in, proper steering dampening, wheel offset, track bar tightness, and tie rod ends are probably 95% to blame for the problem. Caster was less than 20% of the time to blame…and it had to be WAY off in order to affect it at all. Hell…we even had a rig with 4.5* NEGATIVE caster (the upper ball joint was IN FRONT of the lower ball joint!!!), and it STILL didn’t have Death Wobble!!
Kevin….Need help… 2005 wrangler X, 77,000 miles. 33″ tires no lift….have a vibration that only happens between 35 & 42mph. doesnt matter what gear I’m in, or what the road conditions are. If I accelerate quickly through the range it seems to be mild. If I slowly climb through the range the front end/ steering wheel/ shifter along with everything else shakes like h**l. had the tires balanced and front end aligned… any suggestions?
Hmmm…odd. Stock wheels, or aftermarket? What’s your toe-in setting? Are you certain that your tires are not out of round?
Where do I begin. JK 2008 4″ lift MTZ 315/70/17 (30% life left). I really don’t know which kit lift I have since I bought it installed from the dealership. My guess is the pro-comp explorer (a favored brand from a local shop) Ok specs out of the way now the problem. I’ve gone to local “experts” and 4×4 places trying to fix the death wobble. Everyone says that my tires are culprit of my problem, that most likely my tires are “out of round”. Nothing seems loose in the front end. The last shop I took it to did the 10 to 2 steering tests and nothing seems loose. Before I spent another $1k+ in new tires can you or do you know of a reputable trustworthy shop in the south florida area.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.
I’m sorry, Alex, but I don’t know of a good shop in that area. However, tires being out of round would not cause DW…not at all. In fact, I’ve got some crappy, REALLY out of round tires on my 2008 JK, which has 3.5″ of lift, and I don’t have Death Wobble at all. My steering wheel shakes back and forth due to the stupid tires, but that’s not Death Wobble. DW is caused by a left-right looseness, not a rotational out-of-balance. So, keep finding new shops until you find one that finds the cause of the problem. Hand them a print out of the Death Wobble article above, and ask them to go through it for you. I guarantee that its’ curable!
Hey kevin i have a 1991 jeep cherokee xj i bought it with a 5 half sky jacker lift it had 30s on it and i never had any problems, until i went mudding ever since then I cant get it to stop. I recently put 35s on it. now my question is i have aftermarket lower control arms and oem upper does that make a big difference or not i do have the lower bushing replacements.
I’m thinking you probably bent something while you were mudding it. Could be toe-in related as well. It’s best if you have adjustable upper AND lower arms…that way you can push the axle forward, where it belongs, and where it fits a decent sized tire…rather than having the front axle be “pulled” backwards toward the driver, which is what happens when you add lift, but don’t extend the arms outward.
Please help. I have adjusted almost everything. I just put a 9 inch rough country lift on my 1999 jeep grand cherokee. It has 31×10.50 mud tires on it. I cant seem to figure out what is causing it to do the whole death wobble thing. I took it to a 4×4 expert shop and they couldnt tell me anything except maybe it was the front upper control arms. So i adjusted the so they were shorter and it brought the top of the axle backward. It still didnt help. If you have any advice please help me.
Did you already go through the entire list above? If so, what are all your settings?
everytime i come to a stop with my jeep grand cherokee 97. it always vibrates like crazy and sometimes it wont go. i will have to put it in park and then back in drive. and all you can hear is it reving up.
That’s not Death Wobble…not sure what it is…but definitely not DW.
i stumbled across ” my fix” for the death wobble while browsing online. anything over 80kph on the highway and the jeep( wrangler) shook so bad it was scary. only way to stop it was to reduce to an unsafe highway speed. online someone listed changing out factory urethane control arm bushings (soft), on a cherokee, to polyurethane bushings (firmer). the only one i didn’t change was the one right next to the front differential (pita). death wobble instantly gone.
Interesting. You must have had some REALLY bad bushings in there in order for poly bushings to be the ONLY thing that solved the Death Wobble problem you were having. I’m guessing that they were to the point that ANY new bushing (poly, rubber, factory, etc.) would have had a similar effect. I personally don’t like poly bushings in the control arms, because poly transmits a lot of “NHV” (Noise, Harshness, and Vibration) to the cabin…you can feel every little piece of gravel you run over in the floorboards because it no longer has that rubber “isolation damper” in the linkage. Agreed, it tightens up the linkage, however, the price to be paid is generally pretty high if you daily drive the Jeep, or take it on longer trips. I’d recommend this as a LAST DITCH ATTEMPT ONLY!!! If you have bad control arm bushings, replace them with factory Mopar rubber bushings, or Moog brand…not Chinese AutoZone / CSK / PepBoys bushings.
There is a reason why the factory used rubber bushings when building the Jeep. Poly bushings are WAY less expensive, and we all know that auto manufacturers cut corners any time they can find a shortcut…yet NO auto manufacturer has EVER used poly bushings in control arms, so far as I know…and there’s a reason for that, lol. Poly works well for track bar bushings, and for steering dampeners, but NOT for anything that’s going to take hits from the suspension, because it’ll transmit it directly back into the uniframe. Poly also doesn’t flex, so if you do ANY offroading at all, you’re going to go through poly bushings constantly, whereas rubber conforms during articulation.
Can you tell that I don’t like poly bushings in most all applications? Keep poly in your track bars and your steering stabilizers only.
I HAVE A 07 DODGE 2500 MEGA CAB AND WHEN I TAKE OFF THERE IS A WOBBLE OR SHIMMY IN THE REAR AREA!! IT IS 100 TIMES WORSE WITH A LOAD! THE DODGE PLACE HAS NO ANSWERS CAN U RECOMMEND ANY THING OR ANY WHERE TO ASK????????
Does not sound like Death Wobble to me…sounds like a bent driveshaft or a bad motor or transmission mount.
kevin, i just wanted to let you know i figured out the problem with my wj. i had a rough country dual stabilizer and the center bracket that both stabilizers conected to was flexing from side to side, thus wasnt doing its job. i moved one stabilizer to the stock location and no dw. it still has a little shake from time to time so im going to try your stabilizer set up next. thank you for the help and your extensive knowledge on jeep dw. you have an awsome thing going here and i very much appreciate what your doing!
I have dw on my 89 cherokee with just a 2 1/2 in budget lift. Spacers and add a leaf.
I have switched the track bar, stabalizer, had it aligned three times total, by 2 different shops, the DW always comes back. The weird thing is that it seems if i leave the jeep alone for a while, or if i physical lift the car up, like to work under it, the DW goes away for maybe a wk or so. At first, I thought the alignments themselves were what was fixing the jeep, but then after clutch went out, and i had to lift the car up to work on it, when i dropped it back down and was driving around, i noticed the dw was gone and it didnt come back for almost 2 wks.
as i side note, I also have 5×5 spacer adapters and 18in JK wrangler wheels with stock tires on it.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Pete
Pete: If you still have the stock wheels/tires, can you put those back on, to see if it changes anything? Odd how lifting the Jeep up seems to affect the DW…almost like something is worn, and allowing slop once you hit a bump, and it may “reset” when it’s in the air?? Odd. Does the alignment shop know how to modify the settings from stock for a lifted vehicle with a larger contact patch of rubber on the road, and a lift, and wheel spacers, and such…or did they just set it to stock specs, like most alignment shops not familiar with 4x4s do?
Kevin,
First, THANK YOU for an Excellent collection of knowledge-packed, no-nonsense web pages. You and the folks posting here have given me hope that I’ll be able to keep my ZJ safe on the road for another couple of decades.
I have a stock ’93 ZJ, no lift. Lots of wear from daily 4WD driving on our ranch “road”. Will your Track Bar Conversion Kit work with stock configuration? If so, will it also allow me to lift the Jeep later and add longer control arms, etc?
Best regards,
Jr.
You’re very welcome, JR! The only reason why you’d NOT be able to use the Death Wobble package, or the Track Bar Conversion at stock height, is that it’ll rub on the differential cover, but that’s fixable several different ways:
1) Add a little lift to it…1″ should do it.
2) Recess the cover slightly so that it clears the track bar
3) Adjust the track bar so that the axle is slightly offset to the passenger side, and it should clear
4) Slightly reduce the length of your control arms (if you have adjustable ones).
Kevin,
Thanks for the quick response.
Do you still carry the Ultimate 1″ Leveling Kit for ZJs?
listed at http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/zj/zj_10kit.html
Regards,
Jr.
hey kevin, sry i forgot to ask about my tires. i bought wheels with a 4″ offset and still have the factory size tires with cooper discovery m/s. they are a radial type tire and when i put them on before the lift they seem to wonder. it still has that feeling of moving around with the lift on but worse, do you think this could be the problem.
I’ve found that, in general, the less backspacing you have, the more “wander” you have, just by nature of physics, for what it’s worth. Can you put the factory tires on the factory wheels and see if that changes anything? Please refer to other question on your first comment too.
thanks for the response, any information you have is greately appreciated. they printout they gave me is measured in degrees. the left front toe is set .10 degrees inward, right front toe is .11 degrees inward. the left caster is 6.4 degrees back and right is 6.2 degrees back. my left front camber is slightley out at .8 degrees in. the right side is .4 degrees in and is showing fine. i will try the stock wheels but if that dosnt work for the dw i dont know what else to do other than maybe a long arm kit. ive checked the front end many times and its as solid as it can be. tho i can say the stabilizer i have isnt very impresive for its size. thank you again for your time.
hi. i recently put a 4″ lift on my 2000 wj and ive been fighting death wobble since the day it was put on. ive had it aligned twice and replaced the tie rod new dual rough country stabilizer and the jks track bar you recommend with the harder bushings. its alot better than it was but its still there and im not sure what to try next. the only thing i can think to do is upper control arm bushings, they dont seem to be bad bu tim also not sure how stiff they should be. you can move them slightely if you twist them with your hands. what do you think about this.
thanks
What is your toe-in setting, Bryan, according to the alignment spec printout? What about the caster setting?
Hi. So i have a 2002 Trail Blazer (LTZ if it matters).
I was in a front right collission and incurred $4,000 in body damage & repair.
So the body shop tells me the wheel alignment is covered but “you need tie rod end & ball joint” (right front) so the alignment won’t hold…he wants to know if i want him to repair the TR & BS so the alignment will hold.
I said “no thanks…not right now”.
So here’s my question for you…Am I suicidal riding around with a (supposed) bad tie rod and ball joint? (worse yet am I gonna be a danger to other drivers?)
Thanks!
Bill
You’ll have sloppy steering, unresponsive steering, and a wandering vehicle if the Tie Rod Ends are bad. Definitely replace them, and then get it aligned!
Hey Kevin, I have a question. I have a death wobble on my jeep wrangler, 1991 straight inline 6. It’s on 38s with a 9 1/2 lift. I have a new universal trackbar dual stabilizers new pitman arm n I replaced all of the swaybar bushings and both front u joints n am still on. A death wobble. I. Do need an alignment tho. What should. I. Do thx rob
I would get the alignment done ASAP…that may be your ONLY problem at this juncture…
Man wish I would have read about this problem before I bought my XJ. I bought a 1988 pristine XJ off of a preacher. Paid 1600 dollars for it not rust, perfect. I thought it was a steal and about 300 miles into owning it I was on a really bad stretch of road and then it happened. The wobble was so bad I thought I was dragging something with four flats at the same time. I thought it was a shock problem at the time and made a mental note to lift the jeep and put shocks on it at the same time. Months went by before I put the lift on and the only time I got the wobble was on this certain patch of road that had many bumps close together, otherwise no wobble. I went ahead and put new shocks (Rough Country) with a 3 inch rough country lift, and also replaced the stablizer with a Rancho 5000. The problem still occured on that patch of road but still nowhere else. As I began to drive the jeep more the problem began occuring on any patch of road particularly when I drove above 50mph and when I hit a bump just right. I have to come to a complete stop, etc. I read online that the tracking bar needed replaced so I laid underneath the vehicle and noticed some slop in the ball joint of the tracking bar so I replaced it, and the problem was worse and happened way more often. Also I rotated the tires and had the tires rebalanced at the same time the tracking bar was replaced. I then got underneath the jeep again and noticed some play in the outer left tie rod so I replaced it and that made it way worse. With that now I can only drive below 50 or it goes right into its horrible wobble. I have not got an alignment but will do so next. Kevin I do notice that on the left side, where most of the problems seem to be, the u-joint on the wheel side looks worn on the outer side. Basically it looks like something has been dragging on the metal and the seal is not on the u-joint hub and has a large groove in it. I got the thinking that maybe the bearings are out and it is causing the axle to move back and forth and causing a weight change on the wheel causing this. Not sure, any advice?
Randall:
When you swapped out the tie rod end, you probably accidently changed the toe-in setting, making it worse, and that made the Death Wobble worse. A proper front end alignment may well fix the problem.
The U-joint probably needs to be replaced if it’s rubbing…get that handled quickly before it comes loose on you under force. There is currently very little force on it, driving around in 2wd…but you need to get that handled right away.
Thanks, Kevin for all your comments on ‘death wobble’. I have a Suzuki Samurai with a lift kit on it. I Replaced the Z bar (cheap piece of…..!) with a custom #8 strength bar with heim connectors. The passenger side wheel had an already installed ‘lift’ arm so I could set the new bar almost level with the other side. I also replaced the steering stabilizer with one from a 4×4 shop but i still have a death wobble going over irregular bumps at very low speeds (10-25mph) At high speeds I’ve never had a problem. I’ll try the inspection as you suggested, and try the alignment along with the tire pressure test to see if it fixes it. I know your a Jeep Man, but this site is the best advice I’ve seen yet on death wobble problems. I have the freeway vibration soo bad I can’t go more than 50mph. That totally Bites!
Awesome, Gerard…post back as to what solved the problem for you, if you would…so that others can benefit.
Hey kevin,
I so appreciate your website!!! I have been so frustrated! I have had my 1996 Jeep for 11 years and the “death wobble” has NEVER occured until I had just my front right tire replaced. It happed about 15 min after I got the new tire. I came back, had it rebalance, left…same violent side to side shake. Went back and they switched the new front right tire and the back right. Still death wobble. Is it because of the way they raised it to put on the new tire? Did they f**K up the geometry in something?? I feel like they should fix it! what should I do and what should I tell the guy that put on the new tire?? Oh, and my jeep has a 4 1/2 inch lift and 32 all terrain tires… THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
Try shifting the tires from the rear to the front, and see if that changes anything. One of our local customers has a ’97 ZJ, stock height, and never had DW until a tire shop installed a used tire on the right front. Turns out that not only was the tire the wrong size (215/75r15 instead of 225/75r15), but it also was starting to separate. Not sure which of those two problems caused the DW, but after getting the proper sized tire and a rotation, the DW went away.
Kevin,
I just installed a Trailmaster 5″ lift kit on my 2007 JK (actually about 4 weeks ago) and it drove very well for the first two weeks after getting it aligned at a local shop I trust very much as they install lift kits and seem to know what they are doing. In any case about two weeks ago I started experiencing the dreaded death wobble and have some concern that I might have some other worn suspension parts, especially since the vehicle has nearly 90K miles on it. My question actually revolves around the track bar that came with the kit, it is a lot larger and heavier than the factory track bar, is it possible that it could still be a part of the problem? I know you said there were two other manufacturers out there with stiffer bars but mentioned no names. I am definitely going to spend at least a half to an hour under the Jeep this evening inspecting all of the suspension components. I am also going to lower my tire pressure as I have been running my Mastercraft Coursers with about 40-45 psi and am hoping this will help based on your write up. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated. Heck I may even give you a call as well!
Thanks,
John L. Dolde
John:
It’s possible that the BUSHINGS in the new track bar are more problematic than the bar itself. If the bar is substantially larger (beefier), then at least you’ve gotten away from the “accordian-effect” of the thinner factory track bar. However, if the bushings are allowing movement due to the hardness (durometer) of the poly or rubber used in the bushing, even the beefiest track bar won’t help.
I am changeing the ball joints on my 2001 Dodge Ram 4×4 off road. My question is how do I get the damn lower nut off the lower ball joint? I have tried pressure, heat and a pickle fork but the whole ball joint turns and I cant break the nut loose. I have looked everywhere online and doesnt seem that anyone has this problem? What else can I do????
Typically an impact air ratchet and a pry bar to keep pressure on it is a good way to separate it. Sometimes they can be a pain, to be certain.
Kevin,
Thank you so much ! your product is number one.
many thanks,
Kevin,
I discovered the forum and decided to chime in. My wife and I recently experienced DW with her stock 04 Wrangler Rubicon. I rotated, balanced the tires and replaced the front shocks and most of the DW is gone at this time. I still notice some light shimmy somewhere around 50mph. I am going to replace the stock steering stabilizer and also the bushings on the sway bar as you recommended. I read through posts and saw different comments to check the steering linkage for wear. My father taught me, when I was growing up, the best way to check for wear on linkage and all steering joints on the front end. The vehicle tires need to be on the ground or ramps and not suspended. Have someone unlock the ignition, don’t start the engine, then turn the steering wheel back and forth quickly while you are under the vehicle. Watch each connection for movement and replace anything that has the slightest amount of wear. Years ago I had a small Japanese pickup that would from time to time develop DW. I finally purchased a shop manual after many trips to the shop without results and I discovered it required to torque the front wheel bearings to a specific number. What a surprise something overlooked so simple helped until the pickup had over 100K then I discovered an adjustment bolt on top of the steering box had to be tightened down. I enjoyed your site and decided to leave a few comments on my experiences with DW.
Rick
will this death wobble kit even work if i only put 4in coil springs on /i had 33in tires on and know put 235-75-15 tires back on and now death wobble ugh ugh
Brian: Will you please re-word your questions? I’m not following…
Kevin,
Do you have a shop where you or employees work on Jeeps – if not can you recommend a reliable place. I live here in the valley and have had some experience with some of the off road shops and have not been impressed. I am in need of a track bar and am not able to do the work myself. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Wanda
Wanda: Give my buddy Doc a call at (623) 939-9353 and he can install it for you. He does great work!
Kevin~Thank you ~ I will give him a call!
My 37/12.5/17 BFG m/t km2 were at 40 psi… dropped them to 25 ( not even to 18psi) and the death wobble is gone… just added another 2 inches and went from 35′s to 37′s and have been regreting it for 3 weeks… I haven’t even been driving it.. I mean It was that Bad… So I was about to put the 35′s back on… and then I stubmled upon your site through google and I saved it to my favorites… I just wanted to say thank you very much… I’m here in Italy and nobody has a clue about jeeps
I’ve ordered XD Monster 22′s with some Toyo 40/15.50/22 and was having some serious doubts about dumping the extra 20 grand including a trraflex 6″ elite long arm lift kit… long story short I was afraid after already paying for the items and awaiting their arrival from the US, that they would become Garage Ornaments and I would have Thrown away a wad of cash. I hope this works for the 40′s as well… I also ordered a high steer kit and a double steering stabilizer anticipating problems…. Hopefully it will be as simple as putting the right pressure in em’ and I’m on the road….
Thanks again,
Enrico from Sardinia
Outstanding, Enrico…glad we could assist you!!
i have a 96 dodge 2500. its lifted on 44″ super swamper tsl’s and it has a really bad dw. i got the front end alined, new track bar, all new steering arms, all of the ball joints are good.. i have done everything and have spent alot of money.. and i cant get the dw gone.. i just need a new direction to go, i do not know what else to do.. any pointers??
Sorry…right now the extent of the knowledge we have is specific to Jeeps, but if you follow the instructions, you’re going to be pretty good…because a lot of the components are similar.
HELLO I WAS WONDERING ON WHAT I CAN DO TO FIX MY DW ON MY 01 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 4X4 I HAVE A 2″ SPACER LIFT ON SPRINGS BUT ONLY I DONT HAVE IT ON OFF ROAD WHEELS I HAVE 26″ RIMZ WITH 255/30 I HAVE ALREADY REPLACE ALL TIE ROD ENDS PITMAN ARM LOWER BALL JOINTS ADDED RANCHO 5000 SHOCKS WHEEL ALIGMENT REBALANCE WHEELS AND DW STOPED FOR ABOUT A MONTH BUT CAME BACK ONLY TWO THINGS I DIDNT CHANGE WAS STABLIZE SHOCK AND TRACK BAR HOW CAN I FIX MY BIG DW PROBLEM? PLEASE HELP THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND HELP
Alfonso- Just follow the instructions, my friend…and you can solve it.
thank you Kevin im going to try to replace the 2 things i havent change on it STABLIZE SHOCK AND TRACK BAR and see what happens …
ok i change track bar and ordered your special STABLIZE SHOCK and finally its done no more de ath wobble thank you…
Kevin,
The KOR-9301 is fix for 98 Grand Cherokee.
Thanks
Yes, correct, Denny.
heylo, ok i have 2 jeep zjs 6″ one long armd with 33s and one with a 4″ procomp and 31s the one with the 4″ is having dw issues it had dw issues at stock height, but only above happen if u decided to ramp something at 65mph or so (it almost never happen).. We just tossed the 4″ lift on it(been on for about 2 weeks now) and now cannot get to 45mph without dw. i had a wheel bearing roaring and bad ball joints on the same side i replaced everthing on that side(bearing,ball joints,axle shaft,) also had to replace the rod end that connects to the pitman due to slack and poping. the all the bushings on the control arms look good except for one upper axle side(theres slack but its not ripped yet). the sway bar bushings that mount to the body are toast, but does the sway bar effect dw?? bout to toss new tires on it today.
The anti-sway bar has no known affect on Death Wobble. Make sure the tire pressure has been lowered, per the DW article on our site, and check the alignment.
hey kevin i just got the 31″s on the smaller jeep today and lowed the pressure as perscribed it did help the dw but only a little bit. so i started looking into the alignment (it was aligned at a local shop the day i finished putting on the lift) and it was jacked pretty noticably if thats what u was lookin for. so i got out my lazer pointer and did a driveway alignment poof no more dw! im looking for a local 4×4 shop that can and will do alignments but im kinda hesitant, i just got screwed outa 68 bucks for the first alignment, and ended up doing my own(maybe not the best but alot better than the first shop did or neglected to do) any way thanks a bunch i wasnt even thinking about alignment since it was done by so called professionals.
Well, if it’s not pulling to one side or the other badly, and it tracks straight down the road, go with what you have for a while. When you get it aligned, have them get the settings off the front end that it’s set to currently, and keep those specs for your Jeep’s future reference.
ok here goes…94 cherokee, 6 inch lift in rear ( 2 inch block,2 inch shackle,2 inch spring) 1 1/2 inch transfer case drop. approx 5 inch front( 3 inch spring,2 inch spacer) brand new rough country steering dampener shock , and 5000′s all the way around. brand new adjustable track bar.my lower control arms are stock but have new bushings and have been adjusted all the way forward to give me 8 degrees of caster. i have the toe in perfect and the alighnment of the track bar and the steering gear appear to be geometric. i have welded the steering box to the frame and the adjusting nut on the track bar to restrict any movement and i have tightened every component on the front with a cheater bar. i have new sway bar bushings and 2 inch extended links. im running 33×12.50 x15 bf goodrich kos with 40 psi .i do not have a drop pitman arm and this set-up has been running flawless and super tight for the last 3000 miles. but now im developing a wobble and i just spent 10 hrs going through every component and i am at a total loss because every thing is in order ,if not better than it was previously. this jeep has 113,000 miles on it and dont want to go spend a bunch of money if its not going to help. any ideas?
Hey there, Lance. I recommend a stabilizer, to check the toe-in and
make sure it’s no GREATER than 1/16″ toe in, and reduce the tire
pressure down to around 25psi instead of 40psi.
Here’s the link to the steering stabilizer we have had great success
with: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_71&products_id=417
I have a stock 2005 TJ Rubicon that has the death wobble. It was sporadic at first and then became more frequent. It got so bad that a hard brake on a curve at the right speed could instigate it. I brought it in to a local shop that I have had good results with in the past on other vehicles. I knew about the track bar being a likely culprit so I asked them to look at it, it was a little loose and when they pulled it off, they found that the joint was not rotating freely. So I had them put in a new track bar. This helped, I couldn’t make it happen by braking in a corner anymore but I found that I could make it happen when I hit a specific set of rail road tracks near their shop at a set speed. This was an eye opener for them as they were able to reproduce it for themselves now and experience how drastic it was! They took a closer look at the front suspension and noted that the lower control arm bushings were exceptionally loose (ball joints?). I gave them the ok to replace both the lower and upper ones as well (even though they did not specify that the uppers looked shady). $622 later the jeep doesn’t do the wobble when we cross the RR tracks anymore!….however….there is a bridge on a particular road that I drive home on that has ALWAYS made the jeep twitch and, damn it, when I hit it, it was wobble city (the bridge has an off-camber bump into a turn). So I called the shop back, said it wasn’t all the way fixed yet and I would get back to them. That is why I am here. I’ve got close to $1000 into this problem and, though, it’s getting better, it still isn’t fixed. I think that my next steps will be to order your steering stabilizer and track bar bushings for them to install. Do you agree or have other suggestions? Per your article, I will double check tire pressures, it was aligned, twice, as part the process so far and I did have the wheels balanced a couple of months ago.
Thanks for your help and for this page, stupid death wobble sucks!
(different) Kevin
Yeah, that sounds like the next most logical step, I’m thinking. Def bring down the tire pressure to around 30psi, though…that should help some too. You can reduce it further if you have larger than stock tires.
Got the parts (Steering stabilizer & bushings with sleeves) yesterday & I’m having the shop install them tomorrow. I’m also going to have them rotate & balance the tires. Stupid DW happened to my Wife with our 2 kids in the back today at 60 MPH. She recalls a slight left turn and a bump and all hell broke loose. Just to add to the fun, some jerk behind her was laying on his horn as she hit the brakes to try and get it under control. I’ve got the stock tires at 30PSI and I “thought” things were looking up. *sigh* Anyway, I can’t afford to have a vehicle that isn’t safe for wife and kids to drive so I am really hoping that your parts do the trick, otherwise my Rubi is going to get traded in for a nice safe mini-van or something. God I hope we can fix this damned DW!! Anyway, I will let you know how it goes. BTW: Enjoyed reading your write up on your recent trip to Alaska, I couldn’t agree with you more about Missoula, we just did a short trip up there and I fell in LOVE with the place.
(Knocking on wood) it’s fixed!!! I still feel a slight vibration through the steering wheel that I need to track down but the steering stabilizer and track bar bushings seem to have dealt the final blow (for now) to my jeep’s death wobble. Thank you for this resource and for all your advice.
hey kevin i love all the info and want to try some of your stuff I’m just waiting to get paid. i own a 96 jeep xj and have had a 3 in lift on it for several months and just recently moved it up to 6. i had never gotten the death wobble until then. when i put in the new coils i removed, cleaned and greased the whole steering system. it looked fine and everything until i was driving down the highway at about 65 and then boom.. death wobble. i have not yet got under the front to look around but intend to today later. i was just wondering more on why it happens and what exactly is it doing that causes it to happen. i am considering trying lowering my tire pressure and tightening all the bolts in my steering and if it doesn’t fix buying one only your track bars and steering stabilizer. please help me this sucks
Connor:
Go through that article step by step, and you’ll discover one or more things that’s causing it. Without crawling under it, there is no way for me to give you a solid diagnosis, unfortunately.
thanks kevin i went in to an alignment shop the other day got my tires balanced and an alignment and it pretty much solved the whole problem. it will give me the pre wobbles occasionally going over big bumps but thats really all. If i upgraded from a stock steering stabilizer to an ome one do you think that would pretty much solve the problem all together? or should i do something else?
I recently acquired a ’92 Jeep Cherokee Limited with 235/75/15s on it. It also has aftermarket rims on it. I have the original rims as well. I was wondering if i put the original rims on it if it would fix my death wobble?
Cody:
It’s not likely, however, it’s worth a shot to help troubleshoot. Replace ONLY the front two tires with the best of the four originals…and see if it gets worse or gets better. I’ve had it happen both ways.
I have a 2000 jeep grand Cherokee limited 110,000 miles with a stock front end. Starting getting the death wobble about 2 months ago. Front end has been aligned replaced the track bar, steering dampener, all for tie rods with new tubes, and have checked all bolts fir correct tightness. Still have wobble going down hill and hitting the break at about 40-50 mph. What would you suggest next?
I think I’m confused…did you already do ALL of the things in the article, or not yet?
Sorry to bother Im still investigating info for my jeep with death wobble. All your information is so helpful being how im doing this on my own. I really need to know what im talking about so when i present my jeep the mechanic knows were on the same page. Question if my Jeep was recently worked on with a new differential and same time universal barring like 3 were replaced would that or anything around it cause something to do with death wobble. MY jeep is lifted like 2 to 3″ . never had a death wobble problem until then and the mechanic will only tell me “well I dont know”
im so upset with him but the new one ive sought out hopefully will help but i need to know if this new work is where we should look at also? thank you for you help
Any adjustment made to the alignment can set off Death Wobble…including hitting a large pothole, curb, rock, or anything solid laying in the roadway, not to mention off-roading. If the entire axle assembly (the thing the differential is attached to) was removed, then yes, your alignment would be changed as a result of a different axle assembly being installed.
Hi Kevin,
I have a 2008 wrangler Sahara that never had death wobble until I installed a lift kit and that was last week, so do I need an alignment or change the caster angle.
Thank you
Caster angle is checked during the alignment, so yes, I’d check both. More likely it’s the toe-in…which changes more with a lift kit install than does the caster.
Hey, i just picked up an 03 TJ and it only wobbles when I downshift into 3rd (slight shake), and when I downshift into 2nd there is a very noticeable shake. I am new so I am not sure if it is the tranny or something else.
Can you describe the shake more completely? Does the steering wheel twist back and forth in your hands, or are you feeling a vibration? If it has a lift on it, and the driveshaft angles are not correct, it will VIBRATE when downshifting. This, however, is not Death Wobble.
One more than if my u joint are bad would that be a big cause just asking not sure if thats the problem for death wobble. Thank you
Completely unrelated, Brenda.
I have a 1998 jeep cherokee sport it has 8 inches of lift running with 35s. my death wobble came out of nowhere when i was in moab back in May. I was driving down the road comming home and the front end of the jeep all of a sudden started jumping and shaking going down the highway. I pulled over to the side of the road and was just taking a look under the jeep and i noticed when i was turing off the road i was hearing a snapping sound. i had to get it towed home, but when i got home i took a better look at it and it looks like the upper control arm connected to the top of the axle was moving at least a quater of an inch. do you know what needs to be replaced?
If you take a picture and e-mail it to me, I’d perhaps have a better idea, but no…I can’t see it from here, lol. A local mechanic would be far more helpful to you in this instance than I will be, unfortunately.
I have a 2003 dodge 2500 4×4 quad cab bought it in May 2011 drove it on the highway in Aug. for the first time with my landscaping trailer behind it and experienced the death wobble for the first time broke my tie rod sleeve and almost died got the damage fixed and two days later had death wobble again will your repair kit fix my problem? p.s. it is not lifted it is stock
Our kits are specific to Jeep vehicles, Chuck, and I don’t think any of it will be a direct bolt-on for a Dodge.
Hi kevin. I own a 200 jeep cherokee sport wich I just did 2 inch lift spacer so after that when going in the haway @55mph I experienca a crazzy shaking on my driver side tire thinking I left a loosen bolt some where when I did the lift kit bot not. so now it constately happendns at anyspeed when the road is bumpy or at the curves. I havecheked some of the videos about this famus dw! and it seem to happend on factory jeeps too.
Can you please tell me wich one of the parts to to be replace? by the way my tires are 29.50 r 15.
What you’re explaining, Alex, doesn’t sound like Death Wobble at all to me. Does the steering wheel shake in your hands badly once you hit a bump and you were going say 45mph or so? Or, does the steering wheel move irrespective of speed? Sounds more like an out of round or out of balance tire to me, from what you describe…
We have a 2001 jeep cherokee sport. We do not use the vehicle for off roading nor do we have a lift kit. We do indeed have the death wobble b/t 45-55 mph. There is slight wear on one tire, slight alignment problem. My husband has replaced the steering stablizer, didnt help.Next he rotated the tires and the wobble seemed to get a little worse. The track bar is not loose at the frame but has at least a 1/2 in verticle movement at the pitman arm. He is working on replacing the track bar today. If replacing the track bar does not help what should we try next?
Thanks,
Samantha
A good, solid connection between the axle and “frame” via the track bar is imperative. I’d replace the track bar with a thicker model if that doesn’t help, like the JKS-126 bar shown here: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_41&products_id=778
Ok so my problem… I experienced death wobble in my jeep about a year ago when it was stock… I didn’t know what it was thought it was the breaks… had it checked out it wasn’t… It did not do this again for about 6 months and would only do it when I got on the breaks hard… Well now I lifted it and the other day it occurred again… I have no idea what the problem is… I have the trailblazer OME lift kit from rockyroad.com… I drove it for 2 solid weeks with no problem now out of the blue it started… I have their aftermarket Track-Bar but there is no play, I have not checked the ends yet as I am putting it up on my lift Sunday… It has the stock Steering Stabilizer I am replacing it with the OME one that I bought… However I don’t want to put it on because I’m afraid it will just mask the problem and I want to fix it. I am running the wrangler Kevlar tires 33 12.50 on Mickey Thompson rims… The lugs however are not loose everything is very snug… What else do I need to look at I put a transfer case drop on it and my angles don’t look to be bad… I’m not a novice with mechanics but when it comes to suspension I guess I just might be… Any help at all would be greatly welcome of what else to look for when I put it up on the lift… The other parts I have for it just not on yet I will be putting them on Sunday is as follows front and rear sway bar links made for a 4in lift..
Thanks,
Justin Gable
Sounds like a track bar and bushings problem, along with perhaps alignment to me. We also do not recommend you use Rocky Road products at all. Here’s why:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/bad-rocky-road-offroad-rro-experience-441808/
kevin i bought your death wobble kit a couple of weeks ago but do not know where kor 1199 super bushings are to be installed at. also now i have a wobble at 55 miles an hour, please any advice. thank you very much mike.
They go in both ends of the track bar.
2004 jeep wrangler w/ a 4 ” short arm procomp lift, 33″ bfg at’s. first time in the shock stabilizer was leaking and 3 lower shock bushings were worn out = replaced them. the death wobble seemed to go away, but 3 weeks later it came back. re-checked the front end for something loose and everything was tight – balljoints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, steering box. balanced the tires and then rotate dthem side to side = still there. had customer try putting someone else’s tires on it and they informed me that it still had the death wobble. next i tried a new trac bar even though i did not feel any play in it. road tested and it was still there. welded washer on the lower trac bar mount because the hole was getting worn. took the new trac bar off and put the old one back on. i adjusted the air psi from 30 to 35 to 28 = still the same. replaced the lower control arm bushings – had to cut the bolts off from the axle side because they were froze into the sleeve, put grade 8 bolts w/ washers in front side of control arm. road test, still there, adjusted the lower control arm all the way back, all the forward and opposite on each side = still there. with the jeep running i had someone shake the steering wheel back & forth and got very slight play out of the tie rod end to the pitman arm. road test, still there. had alignment done and it’s still there. if it is in 4 wd it’s much better – the shake starts after 45 mph and up and it will not stop until it comes down to 30 mph. thank you for your time and any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated ! erik
Definately sounds like an alignment thing if it’s still doing it without change with all the tests you’ve done. Try playing with the alignment settings incrementally, and make SURE you have good quality stabilizers on there!!
Today after the alignment I put 2 jeeps side by side and checked the angle of the tie rod ends. My tie rod had more of a angle to the pitman arm than the other jeep did that i was comparing it to so I put a drop pitman arm on and it solved the problem after re-centering the steerring wheel… no more death wobble. Do not know why because this lift has been in this jeep for approx. 4 yrs. but the problem was cured w/ a drop pitman arm. Thanks for your response and maybe this will help someone else.
Thanks for your sane info. I’m just back from the dealer with my 2005 Wrangler Sport. They’ve replaced the dampener twice- insisting that’s the only problem- and now the death wobble is worse than ever. The roads in San Diego are bumpy so I expect this problem will continue to get worse. I’m not up to a DIY but would gladly bring your kit to someone who knows how to use it. Do you have any recommendations for help in the San Diego area?
Kevin…I was about to order you jk death wobble package when I noticed some slop in one of my tie rod ends (the one on the pitman arm). Should I replace this component first or add your kit as well to help prevent premature wear. Or is there a way around this type of end by way of the after market. Also do you think this loose end could be the root of my death wobble problem?
I would replace anything and EVERYTHING that had any wear to it, including a bad tie rod end. Bad TREs are not typically the SOURCE of Death Wobble, but they can certainly exasperate the problem, and Death Wobble will indeed make the problem worse over time, giving your steering even vaguer response.
My 93 Cherokee Sport recently developed death wobble. In checking suspension parts for play, the only component that appears to have any is the drag link, but in looking at the way it’s made I suspect it is supposed to have some play (rotational play). Is that correct?
Definitely need to have some radial play so that the tie rod end doesn’t bind through it’s stroke, but if it has any slop in/out, it needs to be replaced. You can feel a light ‘clunk’ when putting your finger on a bad tie rod end, if you have someone else move the steering wheel back and forth from 11 o’clock to 1 o’clock over and over again.
Does this happen to non lifted jeeps. I have a 99 grand cherokee laredo. It started with a slight wobble in the front right. this continued to worsen and now it is full blow death wobble. Does this sound like something a non-lifted jeep would experience?
Thanks.
Absolutely, it happens to stock Jeeps too!
Absolutely it’ll happen with non-lifted Jeeps, Clark.
My 2001 Grand Cherokee WJ has a 3 inch lift with 245R75/16 tires. It also has an approx. 300 lb customized bumpers (front and back) with a winch on the front . I have replaced the steering gear box, all ball joints, tie rods and control arms. I got an alignment but still have the wobble. I measured the frame/chasis to the same spots on both tires. The driver side is 15 inches and the passenger side is 14 1/4 inches. Would this cause the wobble and could it be corrected by using the adjustable track bar?
With respect to the track bar, you will definately be able to fix the off-center problem with the OGS-127 model track bar, however, that’s generally NOT the cause of the DW…but the track bar MAY cause the OTHER problems that DO cause Death Wobble.
any ideas on whats causing it? I changed all the ball joints, tie rods, sterring gear box and control arms. Then got an alignment. Could the alignment be wrong due to the car being lifted 3 inches? Could it be due to the alignment shop using fsctory settings? If so, do you have a figure on what it should be set at? Would it haved helped installing adjustable ball joints?
Hi Kevin, i dont know if this is the right place to ask about a 2005 dodge ram 2500 cummins diesel but maybe you could help me out. what happened is the truck is my second vehicle so it has low milelage right around 48,000 i bought it new and in about 2009 i put on a 2″ leveling kit and in january 2010 i bought bf goodrich all terrain 315 70 r17 load range D tires @ 60 psi on the oem aluminum wheels. All was good and i even drove it to florida recently and i live in new jersey and i noticed about 2 1/2 month later im getting servere death wobble at around 60 accelerating to about 70+ and its just getting worse but has been fine from when i had the tires installed and had an alighnment done but now it seems like 60mph plus its like the danger zone but is fine at 50mph and lower. could it be a worn steering stabilizer? thank you
Yes, it could be, Greg. It could also be your track bar or track bar bushings, or alignment, or some other things. Your truck is pretty similiar to the Jeep suspension, so read through the article and use it to figure out what the problem may be. You can also print it out, and give it to your mechanic if you prefer.
Kevin,
Wow, thanks for such a great informational site! Finally someone who knows what they are talking about and someone who gives a crap. I have a 2005 Wrangler with a 6″ lift. I have been experiencing the famous or infamous DW for quite sometime. I did have the track bar replaced about 3 years ago and was told that one should replace it about every 10,000 miles. (which I have not done.) I am again experiencing the problem which is just intensifing with time. I don’t have the money to put into it at this time~so my question is how much other damage will this create and how dangerous is the DW.
Wanda:
Your investment in a $200 track bar NOW, will save you from literally thousands of dollars spent to rectify the situation after the Jeep becomes completely undrivable. Borrow the money if you have to. If you want to “do it right” , there is an entire package available, which has all the good stuff pre-packaged for you here: Death Wobble Kit for TJ Wrangler
Definitely get it handled right away, Wanda. It’s going to get exponentially worse until something breaks.
Hi Kevin,
You are really doing a good thing here.I am new to Jeep got mine last year(2005 wrangler sport) everything has been great till now developed a little bit of wobble now, found a few things to check thanks to you has helped but my question is my jeep had a lift kit installed when I bought it (pro comp) I have no clue how tall it is is there a way I can find out how tall the lift is as this might help when getting aligned for the settings.
Thanks
Ken
Ken:
If you measure from the center of the hub on the wheel, STRAIGHT UPWARD and read what distance it is to the fender lip, you can tell how much lift you have. A factory-height 2005 TJ Wrangler is going to measure somewhere around 20″ at the front and an inch less at the rear.
Hi! I realize this might be really tricky to answer since, for the most part, I have no clue when it comes to vehicles. My husband does but at this point he is overcome with frustration with the inability to fix the death wobble thus far and he has handed the reins to me… Before reading your article I had no clue as to what was going on but it has cleared it up for me at least to the extent that I feel I can ask some questions, but I’ll understand if you find it difficult to answer due to my very basic knowledge. I am hoping however, you’ll be able to give us some idea of where to go from here… We have an 06 wrangler unlimited. It first showed signs of DW with stock height and wheels. Then we put on a 4″ lift and uh, “bigger” wheels. Not sure on the size, maybe 33″. DW went away for a little while but then it started showing up every once in a while. One time I had quite a bit of mud in the wheel well and it was doing it a lot but we pressure washed the mud out and it went back to just every once in a while. Then in the past month or two it has progressively gotten worse and in the course of a couple days it got so bad that I (like others have reported) had to struggle just to keep it straight on the road until I could slow enough for it to stop. We put the stock tires back on to see if that would help and it DIDN’T (was worse in fact). So then my husband ordered an adjustable front track bar and lower control arms (from Rusty’s off road) and installed them but the DW persisted. He checked all components for looseness, etc. as you have suggested but it still persisted. He then adjusted the caster to 9 degrees and it helped some, but as per many suggestions he followed up with an alignment. That was done this evening and apparently after it was done the DW was back again. Any ideas on where we go from here? Would the steering stabilizer be a good next step? Thanks a million!
Norah:
Without looking at it in person at our Phoenix, AZ shop, I can’t tell you with any certainty what it may be. There are about a dozen things…maybe 20…that it could be. I’d have to look at it myself, before I could tell you.
I recommend one of the two things: If you’re using a professional shop to do the work, print out the article and take it in to them, and have them follow the steps to the “T”.
If you’re doing the work yourselves, I recommend getting the “TJ Death Wobble Package” with all the components, which, in conjunction with a proper alignment, tends to solve Death Wobble problems in about 95% of the cases, from our experience. You could indeed buy parts and pieces, but without KNOWING what to replace, you’re shooting in the dark. Replacing everything at once gives you a MUCH better chance of killing it in one afternoon, and then whatever parts you replace, could be sold on eBay or Craigslist to help recoup the cost.
Hi Kevin;
Thanks for responding so quickly… We put a steering stabilizer on tonight as well as a pitman arm and so far so good, though we didn’t get to take it very far on the test drive. So at this point I think we have replaced most of what you what you include in the package, but had we seen your package before we had already replaced the trackbar and control arms we would have done that for sure… We’re also gonna put new tires on it this week. At this point I feel like we’re close to having it figured out but we’ll keep at it until it is cured. Your article was a great help, we really appreciate it.
I have a WJ with death wobble. It has a rough country 4″ lift that was installed 2 months ago. I can see a tiny bit of play in the lower track bar mount. I’m wondering if your track bar conversion will fit a WJ.
Thanks.
No, our Track Bar Conversion is for an XJ Cherokee or ZJ Grand Cherokee, not for a WJ Grand Cherokee. However, we do have a WJ Death Wobble Package also, which will indeed fit. And, we have a whole bunch of Death Wobble parts available as well, by clicking the links in this response.
Thanks for the response Kevin!
Can you tell me what the difference is between your secondary steering stabilizer and the rough country dual ss setup?
Also, this jeep had a 2 inch budget boost and that’s when the dw started. Previous owner thought that if he was going to replace suspension/steering parts to fix the dw he might as well put on the 4 inch lift. It has the x series 4 inch from Rough Country. What else could cause DW other than the parts that come with a 4 inch lift? It already has adj control arms, new track bar (though I did notice there is some play, I think it has gotten loose as a result of the dw), etc. Can a steering box cause it?
FYI – it also has new Ball joints and tie rod ends. new JK wheels and bridgstone dueler A/T tires with approx. 12,000 miles on them.
The rough country lift says to align it to stock specs, but everywhere else I read people say NEVER align a lifted jeep back to stock specs. Which one do I do??
Sorry for the twenty questions! I appreciate your help!
Kevin, please help!
Stock specs on alignment or not? 4 inch rough Country X series lift.
Thanks!
NEVER use the stock alignment specs on a lifted Jeep! Take it to a shop that specializes in lifted rigs, and have them do the alignment for you, Jeremy.
Hey Kevin, Long story short, was sick of looking at cars, my buddy needed his truck back and I bought a 98 cherokee classic w/ 144k after driving it around the block. His nephew paid $3500 for it afew months back and hit a deer a week ago. Not alot of damage. Airbags deployed, abs now not working etc… paid him $1200 cash. he followed me home down the highway for 20 minutes. The whole time I’m thinking why won’t his guy go over 50 mph ? WHO DRIVES 50 MPH ???? Took it to my guy next day, said most everything looked good. I’m 45 and i know any vehicle for $1,000 is a gamble… i expect to put afew hundred in and be done. So after only $90 for muffler, headlight etc, i was not unhappy. THEN I DID 60 MPH. I immediately pulled over, checked my shorts and called the guy cursing up and down. It then occurred to me why he wouldn’t go over 50 MPH the whole way home !!! He refused to take the truck and return my cash. What I have a problem w/ is that he KNOWINGLY PUT MY LIFE AT RISK. ANYWAY… told my guy what happened, he said google dw. i said huh ???? so apparently everyone has heard of this but me. So i don’t know from xj wj etc…. classic is what i have. 4.0 etc… 4 wd… no lift, standard tires etc…i guess i don’t want to order wrong parts etc. I really want to just sell the thing asap as a back n forth to commuter lot vehicle and DISCLOSE THE KNOWN DEFECT and sleep at night but may pursue this…would also rather spend $40 on alignment if that might do it instead of 6-700… thoughts… ??
Thanks.
Art
Art:
Please have your guy (your mechanic?) read through the article, and then check the thing over for you. He’ll be able to see what’s wrong/loose/broken/etc. pretty quickly by following the Death Wobble write-up. So sorry that there are people in the world who would take advantage of someone the way your buddy’s nephew did…what an ass!
I have the “death wobble” in my 2001 XJ. Man what a rush not being in control of your vehicle while traveling 65+ mph on the interstate. Anyway, after watching some of the “death wobble” videos on youtube I would consider my case to be extreme. My death wobble does not stop until the vehicle comes to a stop or until I lock the front tires with the brakes. My problems are made worse by the 4.5″ rough country I installed over 50,000 miles ago. I don’t expect an alignment to fix the problem so what would you recommend for starters, the trak bar conversion?
Actually, since you don’t yet know WHAT is creating the slop in the system, have someone do the steering wheel test while you’re underneath, looking for loose stuff. Identify what’s loose, and replace those parts. You may find that the entire Death Wobble package is only slightly more than the parts you need.
Hey Kevin,
I have read through this guide by you and all the suggestions you have given other Jeepers in the attempt to cure their wobbly woes and I am impressed. I am starting down the above path of “ruling out” components on my ’99 WJ. So far I have gotten the wobbles to go away by airing up m y 285/75/16 from 32 to 42, putting back on the beefier aftermarket SS that came with the lift, replacing all the bushings in the LCA’s and Trackbar, checking that all the TRE’s have no play(I took them off and check rotation), AND tightening the adjustment screw on the Steering Box…After reading this article, I’m going to try somewhere around 28-26 in the tires to see what happens.
As for the new bushings in my LCA’s and trackbar, which was made by Rocky Road Outfitters….(I know they have a certain reputation), as well as new bushing sleeves for the trackbar, I am still getting some unwanted movement in the front end. Wife says it feels “wondery”, I think it is tighter than it was before, but looses it’s tracking a bit(I blame that on our AR Roads). Being Polyurethane bushings, I can see the trackbar bushings “flexing” in the axle side and frame side mounts as my wife turns the wheel with lots of force back and fourth while I watch. It is not the bolt in the mount moving, but it could be the bolt in the sleeve, as I did not check that when putting it back together. But either way, the bushings is moving a bit left and right with each turn. I may go ahead and drill it out to the bigger grade 8 hardware anyway, but how much “flex” should I see in the trackbar bushings side to side? I know any thing moving laterally is a big problem and needs to go away to alleviate this beast from rearing it’s head again.
I have been asked to get an alignment, but there is not much to align on these jeeps, The Toe-in is the only thing that is settable. The castor should be within spec ( I am going to check this myself with an angler finder, especially if you tell me what range it should be within). This is also the first time in 3 years we have had a problem with this issue. The toe was about 1/8 in…I may take that out a bit more if I get a chance (this is done by hand measuring from inside of wheel edge lip and the camber is non adjustable unless with adjustable ball joints or bent axle issues(which I should not have). What settings do you and your shop use when trying to dial in WJ’s on alignment. I have read 0-1/8 of toe-in is desirable…but not sure on the rest.
Thanks for offering this forum of expressing our questions on your site this way, It looks like it has helped thousands of people!
Hi there, Jason. Thanks for your kind words. I think you’ve come to the right place to find answers, my friend.
On the bushings, was it our SuperDurometer bushings and sleeve retrofit kit that you purchased and installed, or a Rocky Road product? If not ours, I would highly recommend doing so. Factory rubber and most poly bushings are not up the job of handling the forces on the track bar. We had a special blend of polyurethane poured which is EXTREMELY hard, and helps substantially with the movement problem. I cannot vouch at all for the Rocky Road track bar…I have stayed miles away from their products over the years, so I don’t have a frame of reference as to whether or not their bars are any good, or even if our bushings would fit their bar. We recommend the JKS track bar, due to it’s substantial stiffness increase versus stock, and that our bushings were made specifically to go in it. You could literally be a track bar and bushings away from having the problem completely cured, after finding a good toe-in setting for your tires/offset. I do think your toe-in setting is too great. There is no “magic number” for toe in, other than the one that stops Death Wobble, lol, dialing it out a bit may indeed help you. Caster is not change-able, and I don’t know what the acceptable range is, because it’s not something I can change anyway. A front end alignment shop would check that for you. Caster is not often the problem, unless it’s WAY outside the spec range of 4.5* and 6.5* positive.
Kevin,
We had the death wobble repaired on our jeep wrangler some time ago and here it is again. We pull our jeep with the motorhome and are planning a trip this weekend. Is it a bad idea so pull it with the death wobble happening. And do you think that maybe pulling the jeep created the death wobble?
Death Wobble can be WORSENED by towing, but ONLY if the Jeep goes into Death Wobble and you don’t feel it shaking around, and do not slow down to get it to stop. There are some photos online of a Grand Cherokee that developed Death Wobble behind a large diesel pusher, and they didn’t know it was wobbling until the front axle shook out of it, totalling the Jeep out.
So, yes, it’s a VERY bad idea to pull it with DW. However, consider putting the front tires of the Jeep on a tow dolly, and you can tow it just fine that way, even if it does have Death Wobble.
we have a 2005 wrangler with a trailmaster 4″ lift, on the front, we had initial positive caster of 7.5, installed a caster/bolt kit and got it to 5.62 positive, do we need Moog ball joint kit to get it nearer to 4.5?or what do you recommend?, and also more concerning is the rear axle toe is .45 pos. on left, and neg. .16 on right , thrust angle is neg. .31, what can we do with the rear to correct this?
Joe: 5.62* positive caster is just fine. Caster has a lot less to do with Death Wobble than the track bar, the stabilizer, tire pressure, and the toe-in settings do. Better get a body shop involved in the rear axle toe situation.
Hello, I am interested in the average labor time for the death wobble?
I’m not sure what the “average” would be. Some fixes are easy, and only require a half-hour. Others we have a far more difficult time curing, and they range into the 8 or 10 hour mark.
Kevin,
I have recently developed a wobble that appears between 45-55mph in a ’01 XJ, it can range from slight to severe in that speed range depending on road quality, but above that, there is only slight vibration (even up to 75+/-mph). The real kicker that has me mystified is that it only began after having four new valve stems put on my tires to replace old cracked ones.
The only theory I have so far is that the shop rotated my tires without telling me. This is because my left rear tire was actually losing air and would drop to 20psi over a roughly 300mi round-trip made three weekends in a row before I noticed it and had the valve stems replaced. The tires were all filled to 40psi before every trip.
Prior to the stems being replaced, there was no wobble or vibration to speak of. The jeep does have aftermarket rims and dueler apt tires, can’t remember the size off the top of my head, and isn’t lifted to my knowledge (purchased last fall).
Could the 3x300mi trip cause enough wear to an under-inflated tire to cause the wobble if rotated to the front?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly welcomed. As I have minimal mechanical background and this is my first jeep, this has me at a complete loss. My first plan is to take it somewhere for an alignment asap, but following that, I figured I would get some input before I start throwing my limited funds at it.
First, Toby…definitely get it fixed ASAP!! The more times it goes into wobble-mode, the quicker it destroys everything else.
Are you back to the same EXACT tire pressure as you had before (with no wobble)? Did you hit a large pothole or curb or something, which may have been around the same time? I’ve never experienced a rotation setting off Death Wobble…normally it’s a tire pressure change if that’s the ONLY thing that happened, and there were no other adjustments made.
If the tires were not equal pressure left/right, there is a VERY low chance that could be causing it…but that’s SUPER far-fetched, in my experience.
Thanks for the prompt response Kevin,
As far as the tires, they are around 35-37psi as opposed to just about 40 pre-stem-replacement; however, on the previous trips home where by the end the left rear tire was at 20psi and the rest were at 40psi, I had no problems.
I literally left the shop, turned onto a highway, and started shaking at just over 45mph. I immediately went back and asked what if anything else they had done, but the techs there swore up and down that they had touched nothing other than the minimum to get new stems on. The roads aren’t great, but I haven’t hit any serious potholes since owning the jeep.
I will set all the tires to 40psi and see what happens before I get an alignment done and report the results. At least the air is free!
Kevin:
I have an 03 WJ Overland(Up Country Suspension) with a 2” BB, and a JKS Trackbar(with your super hard bushings) and Prcomp ES9000 Shocks. If I hit a bump just right(usually on one side of the truck), I get bad death wobble(after I installed my 2” BB, JKS bar, and Shocks) and have to slow to 10mph to stop it. Here is what I have done so far in order to cure this problem.
1. Installed a fresh Rancho steering stabilizer.
2. Installed your Super Hard Bushings on my JKS 127 Track Bar
3. Installed a new steering box.
4. Installed new lower control arms.
5. Wheels are balanced(stock size)
6. Front end alignment (can’t change the caster because the lower control arms are not adjustable?)
My next step is going to be your secondary SS kit. Before I purchase, I have a couple of questions.
One of the bushings on one of the upper control arms looks like it has a tear in it. Could that be the culprit? Also, the lower control arms I installed are stock size because I did not think I need adjustable ones since I only added the 2” BB. Where should I go from here? I feel like I am just throwing parts and money at this thing.
I also wanted to thank you for responsiveness to my earlier questions about a shipment. You and your team always make sure to let the customer know that you care. It is greatly appreciated and I will do my best to point all of my Jeep Club members to your website.
Thanks again,
Chris
Hey there, Chris. Two things that jump out at me is the Rancho stabilizer (Ranchos have been notorious for having a dead-spot in the center, giving very little dampening when the shaft is pulled out and pushed in repeatedly, as in the case of Death Wobble. I’d ditch that one first thing, and get the dual stabilizer setup you mentioned, that we sell here: WJ Dual Steering Stabilizer.
The second thing is the ProComp ES shocks. I have had cases of Death wobble that have been cured by ONLY replacing the front shock absorbers, and the ES series of shocks is definately NOT the best quality. Make sure to have it aligned by a 4×4 alignment shop, or one that’s WELL versed in the dynamics of lifted 4×4 vehicles, because most alignment shops set stuff to stock specs, which won’t work for a lifted rig with more leverage on the track bar due to the angle of the track bar, and a MUCH greater contact patch due to the taller and wider tires.
The bushings on the upper arm could be suspect, and should be replaced ANYWAY, however, I’m 99% certain that replacing it will NOT make any difference at all on your Death Wobble problem. Put your money into the steering stabilizers and to check the alignment before you do anything else.
And, thank you so very much for your kind words, Chris!!
Kevin,
Thanks a bunch for your quick response. I will take your advise ASAP. Need my daily driver back:)
Hey Kevin,
It’s me again with the 03 WJ Overland with UC Springs, 127 JKS adjustable TB, and a 2” Teraflex BB. So after everything I have done, I am still getting a little bump steer and slight wobbles when hitting a depression on the front right tire. It only seems to happen when I hit a depression and the suspension is extended. This never happens when I hit a depression with the left front. It does not happen very often, but when it does, it really puts me in a bad mood. Haha. Here is what I have done so far.
1. Installed a fresh Rancho steering stabilizer(you have told me that these are kinda shotty).
2. Installed your Super Hard Bushings on my JKS 127 Track Bar
3. Installed a new steering box.
4. Installed new lower control arms(stock size. Don’t need adjustable ones when only go up 2” even with UC springs which came stock on the truck).
5. Wheels are balanced(stock size)
6. Front end alignment by a shop that works on lifted vehicles.
7. Installed your secondary SS kit
8. Replaced my front ProComp ES9000’s with Bilstien 5100’s per your recommendation.
9. Took it to a really good off road shop(Open Air Jeeps in Virginia Beach, VA). They replaced the right upper and lower ball joints. They also checked to make sure everything in the front end was tight. TB holes are good. TB brackets are good. Everything is good.
Is it possible that my adjustable track bar is not adjusted properly? I know that the middle part of my track bar should be parallel with the drag link. When the truck is sitting level on the ground the track bar lines up with the holes pretty well. The truck needs to be pushed to the left(if you are sitting in the driver’s seat looking forward) just a little bit to get the bolt in.
Even though I am not getting DW anymore, it still feels strange and I honestly can’t remember if the truck had a little bump steer and wobbles before the lift. Maybe I am just starting to lose it! I am getting tired of throwing money into this thing! I have more than doubled what I spent on the lift it’s self.
Thank you again for taking the time to help everyone out. You are truly generous.
Chris:
Death Wobble and Bump Steer are two completely different things. It sounds like you’re explaining a minor case of Death Wobble, so I’m going to answer, based on that.
I don’t like the Rancho stabilizers, because they frequently have a “dead spot” in the middle of them, which allows the wheels to move quickly left/right and NOT dampen that quick movement, so yeah, I don’t recommend any Rancho stabilizer. That could be the ONLY thing keeping you from NOT having Death Wobble tenancies.
If the track bar was not adjusted correctly, you’d have a left/right centering problem, not Death Wobble, so that’s probably NOT the case in your case.
Death Wobble is frustrating…no two ways about it…but it sounds like you’re well on the path to solutions. Read through the article again, and see if there is anything else you can do, including lowering the tire pressure, which you didn’t mention in your post.
Thanks again Kevin!
I will replace the Rancho SS once I get the $$.
Kevin,
I just got your death wobble kit in for my 04 TJ today. I want to make sure that I understand what I need to do before I install it on my jeep. Am I suppose to take the Johnny Joint off of the JKS track bar and the bushing on the opposite side and replace them with your durometer bushings with sleeves? The bushings don’t look like they will fit at all on the JJ end. The bolts supplied won’t fit with the JJ end through the bracket that the JJ end attaches to. I can see that the opposite end will work with the bushings and bolt provided. Thanks for all of your help.
Mark
Mark:
No, the Johnny Joint end stays as-is. The SuperDurometer bushings go in the OTHER end of the bar.
Kevin,
I have the horrific death wobble. I read your post and it had a lot of great info. My wobble started after i installed a 2.5″ rough country lift with sway bar disconnects. Had it at a well known shop. they said the ball joint have slight play but are still within specs. Also, the tie rod going to the pitman arm has a little play but in spec. Did a alighnment to fix the toe problem. The stabalizer was replaced with a BDS stabalizer about a year ago. I am starting to regret the lift. Any help to fix the problem would be great.
Shawn:
Did you do all of the things listed in the article already?
yea, had everything checked out. It does wander on the road a little. Could the stabalizer be worn out already? Like I said earlier, did not have this problem until the lift. The wobble is not constant. i can drive it for a couple days and be fine. Then I drive on the same road and get it. Three times it has happened after coming off or on the highway ramps. Funny thing is i greased all the fittings and have not had it since. Probaly around 50 miles. Do you think there is some slight play in one of the joints and the grease took that slop out? By the way I have a 2003 wrangler
READ THIS: Hey i just wanted to thank yall for this great web site. I have a 2004 wj with the budget boost 2.5 lift and bilstein 5100 series shocks with 17 inch moab wheels and 265 70 17 all terrains. I was expiriencing death wobble BAD at 40 to 55 mph. So bad it shook my radiator and caused it to crack near the mounts. There are so many problems that such violent shaking can cause in your vehicle. I replaced the stock steering stabilizer and added the hard kor secondary. i also added a jks track bar and SD bushings. I replaced all the tie rod ends with MOOG parts and replaced the steering gear box which had slack in it (common problem).
MY JEEP NOW RIDES LIKE ITS BRAND NEW AND I CANT GET THE DEATH WOBBLE EVEN IF I TRY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
I love my “new” jeep.
Next thing i want to do is the roof rack but damn its expensive.
thanks again kevin.
Oustanding, Gino!! So happy to hear that you were able to fix it completely!!
Just got this testimonial this morning, from one of our happy customers regarding Death Wobble, and thought I would cross-post it here, as a “motivational” thought for those of you wondering if your case of Death Wobble is curable, or if you’re going to have to sell your Jeep…
“Kevin, I just wanted to thank you for a great product and to let you know you fixed another death wobble! I can hit any bump in the road with confidence again! The parts were of the highest quality and the install went smoothly with the downloaded instructions from your site. I’m so thankful I found your site, and your product! You given me back the capability the jeep lost when I lifted it. Thanks again, and keep up the great work! ”
- Jamie R., Erie, PA
Originally posted here: http://kevinsoffroad.com/testimonials/
Long story short, I bought a 2004 Wrangler Unlimited last October with a lift already installed (I believe it to be at least 3″ though yet to verify) and running with 33″x9.5″ AT tires. The very first day I took the JEEP out on the open highway I experienced extremely serious death wobble, though unaware of what was going on at the time, which caused me to have to stop dead in highway traffic multiple times to make it stop. I immediately returned to the dealership who claimed to have no idea of what kind of situation I was talking about but who finally agreed to make it right once I recreated the scenario with one of their mechanics in my passenger seat- I had to deploy with the military for a brief 6 months but left the vehicle in their hands as they claimed they would figure out the issue at hand but after about 4 failed attempts by their own mechanic they sent it to a 4 wheel shop who claim to have solved the issue by installing a dual stabilizer and replacing the dampener. Now that I’ve returned and have driven the JEEP since their reported repair I highly suspect that their services merely masked the issue at hand as the JEEP often times feels like its going to start the death wobble again but corrects itself as a result of the new parts- I am also only averaging about 9 miles to the gallon city and 12 hwy- Could this much of a loss in gas mileage be explained by the underlying issues causing the death wobble? I am not a very knowledgable car guy myself and have huge reservations about trusting anyone with trying to fix this issue I’m having especially due to my recent experience with the dealership- My plan is to take it to a 4 wheel shop and have the front end alignment and suspension components inspected and adjusted as seen fit to include checking the tires and caster angles. Any idea on about how much I should expect to pay for these services so as to have a rough estimate I can gauge whether or not I’m being ripped off or not? Also, how easy is it to measure the lift my vehicle has currently installed on it myself? Is it just a matter of getting underneath and measuring a few key components? Thanks for any advice in advance-
Fuel economy has nothing to do with Death Wobble, however, the 33″ tires sure will. And, if you didn’t regear the differentials, your speedo is off, making it register slower, showing you driving less miles than you actually are. Go to http://www.4lo.com for tire size calculators and gear ratio calculators. An alignment should run you around $65-$75 in Phoenix, AZ, but if you’re in Alabama in the “sticks” or if you’re in Manhattan, the price is going to vary, obviously. With respect to measuring the amount of lift…simply measure the H2F measurement (Wheel hub center straight upward to the fender lip) and compare it to a stock height model, and you’ll immediately know within a 1/2″ or so how much lift you have.
Some interesting reading here. I bought a 07 X, my first used vehicle since 1996. Made it about 15 miles, hit a small bump at about 40 MPH and nearly lost all control. This was on a busy road with a lots of oncoming traffic. Called the dealer and they (as expected) had never heard of such a thing. Told me to bring it in to be serviced and they would give me a loaner. A Loaner!? I dont think so. They had literally put a new inspection sticker on the vehicle within the hour.
This same thing (DW) happened numerous times before I finally got it back home. It’s going back to the dealership in the morning and it’s the last time I’ll be driving it. Back to new vehicles for me. I don’t have time for this crap.
If you show the dealership the article, perhaps they can resolve the issue completely for you. Jeeps as “new” as 5k miles have Death Wobble problems…so getting a new one may not resolve the issue for you.
Hey Kevin I went ahead and ordered a new set of bfg km2s, and ordered your death wobble cure kit. I did not realize the kit does not come with the sleeved bushings for the upgraded 9/16 bolt for trackbar. Is there anyway I can upgrade to the sleeved bushings over the regular hard kor bushings? I have sent u a few emails trying to get ahold of you before you ship out the kit. I will pay the difference for the price on the bushings. Contact me by phone or by email.
James: I know we answered this via e-mail already, but the KOR-1189-S kit comes included in the TJ Death Wobble package, so no worries there.
Hi – owned a 2008 JK for about 6 months now and have just experienced DW for the first time – twice in the same week actually. Very concerned with my child riding in the Jeep now and looking for fix. I noticed your kit for JK indicates that it is for JK’s with 1″ – 6″ of lift experiencing DW. Do you have a kit for a JK without any lift kit on it?
I am liking the kit idea because it allows me to go into a shop and essentially tell them what to do and install. I don’t want to go around in circles with a shop for 1 months trying 10 different things, etc. And I don’t know of any specialty shops around here who deal only in Jeeps.
Should I be concerned with where I take it, or is this all pretty normal stuff for a shop doing alignment and front end work?
Thanks,
Tim
Tim:
Due to the thickness of the new track bar, *sometimes* it will rub the upper right corner of the front differential housing cover if the Jeep is at stock height. Two ways to fix that…just simply “clearance” the differential cover by tapping it inwards with a hammer (the gears ride on the other side…there is nothing behind the diff cover but air and smelly gear lube fumes where I”m talking about) so that it clears the new, MUCH thicker track bar; OR…you can add 1.5″ of lift to the springs using coil spacers, and you should be good with that route as well.
You should be concerned with where you take it…this is more of an art than a science…so make SURE to take it to a shop who has cured Death Wobble in the past, even if you have to tow or trailer the Jeep further than you might like.
Kevin,
I recently put a TeraFlex 3″ suspension lift on my 2007 JK. I haven’t replaced the stock wheels and tires yet and not long after the install experienced DW at about 40-45 mph just as you describe. I got an alignment (which I’ll get back to) and replaced the steering stabilizer with a Bilstein HD Monotube Steering Stabilizer (gas filled). The old stabilizer was completely shot. This seemed to do the trick in-town at those speeds. I hit as many pot holes and railroad tracks at those speeds as i could and didn’t get any DW. However, I just drove it on the highway and hit a rough patch of road at about 75 mph and the DW occurred again. After this occurrence is when i found your website. One thing that I think may be a source of the problem as you mention is the alignment, looking at the spec sheet from the alignment shop a) i don’t think they made adjustments for the lift, and b) it states that my caster is at 1.5° and 1.6°, which seems low. This seems like this could be a cause for the DW. This is why I think this: Caster and Trail are related, and they add dampening and stability and mine is significantly lower than the OEM recommended 3.7° to 4.7°. The alignment shop didn’t seem to mention that mine was as low as it is for some reason.
In order to increase the camber is it recommended to add aftermarket adjustable upper control arms, and shorten them slightly to increase caster and trail to the alignment? use an extension kit of some sort? adjust in another way? And do you think that this could be causing and/or contributing to the DW. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Ryan
Ryan:
Are you certain that it doesn’t read “7.5″ and “7.6″, instead?? 1.5* is really, really low…and you’re right, it needs to be fixed. Without changing the length of the lower or upper control arm, the alignment shop would not have been even ABLE to make that adjustment…it’s way too much for the factory adjustment settings. I’m not sure what they did, but something is not right. Definitely take it back to them and get them to fix it. You shouldn’t NEED adjustable control arms at only 3″ of lift, UNLESS your caster setting is not able to be adjusted properly using the factory adjustment.
Hey Kevin this is Chris, I wrote you a while back about my 89 XJ with death wobble. I thought the Steering box was the issue, but it turned out otherwise. I have a 6.5 inch rusty’s short arm kit and 33 mickey thompson baja mtz’s.
I get a bad wobble at 32/33mph which is about 40 im guessing realistically. Its only happens at that one speed. I can hit the biggest bump above 40 and never experienced anything.
Tires are balanced
New rancho steering stabilizer
Double checked trackbar mounting bolts and tracbar for tightness
New steering box
Tie rods/ball joints dont have ANY play.
Toe seems right, believe it was 1/8 inch in when i checked it
I’m starting to consider either a control arm drop kit, or a long arm upgrade… but I’d really hope there was an easier solution. Its just so violent I’d expect something easy to find.
Any pointers would be great
Thanks,
Chris
Make certain the track bar is tight, and the track bar bushings are good. Our KOR-9001 Track Bar Conversion with our KOR-1199 SuperDurometer track bar bushings would be a really good upgrade to keep that portion of the system tight. Also, a long arm kit is in your future. Yes, it’s expensive…AND, it’s totally worth the money. After you drive it, and realize you’re NEVER going to have a death wobble problem again, that money you just paid becomes an AMAZING investment. Check out the Clayton Offroad kit we sell…they make an AWESOME product. I’ve never had a dissatisfied customer with a Clayton kit, but I’ve had plenty of dissatisfied customers bringing their (insert every other name brand here) Long Arm kits to us at our Phoenix shop, to fix whatever popping/clunking/loose/bent parts that are driving them crazy, or making the Jeep completely undrivable. Clayton also offers a Lifetime Warranty on their arms. Bend it, send it back, get one free.
Trying to fix my death wobble. I have had my TJ for 7 yrs, Its got a 4” trailmaster lift 35” baja claws, stock control arms. Never had death wobble till now. I tried fixing it with ZJ tie rod and ends, drag link, new steering stabilizer, new upper and lower ball joints, new shocks, new moog track bar. Tire pressures at 24psi. After replacing all of that before the alignment, it was gone just a slight shimmy every once and a while, but no death wobble. Got the Jeep aligned and death wobble again. Checked and every thing is tight. My alignment measurements are at left front camber -.05 right front camber -1.0 left front caster 4.2 and right front caster 2.7 left front toe 0.08in right front toe 0.09in. I’m to the point of selling the Jeep if I cant fix. My tires tread are worn like steps, uneven, but not worn to 1 side of the tire, if that makes a difference.Vehicle was aligned at a shop that specializes in aligning lifted vehicle. What do I need to do?
I’m not at all a fan of the Moog track bars. I’d love to see you upgrade to a nice, beefy track bar like the JKS adjustable front track bar, and getting a set of KOR-1189-S fitment kit with the SuperDurometer bushings. The Moog bar actually collapses in/out, like an accordion, as you steer, made much worse with heavy, wide tires with large contact patches and lots of resistance to turning on pavement.
Bad tires is also going to make the problem worse. Do you have the budget to replace them now, even if you have to sell the old ones? Baja Claws and Thornbirds are notorious for being really likely to Death wobble on you…particularly if they are in bad shape. I also think you have too much toe-in for your configuration…have them dial it back toward zero.
Thanks much for the info.
I found it invaluable. Keep up the good work.
I experienced the Death Wobble (DW) for the first time last week and holy crap is that scary. I thought something had compeltely broke for sure.
I pulled over and pushed, pulled and twisted on all I could but nothing seemed out of normal.
I have an 09′ JK with a 4″ Rancho suspension lift, Skyjacker dual steering stabilizers, 35″ BFG Mud Terrians (KM2′s) and a bunch of other irrelevant stuff.
I rotated and balanced the rolling stock and still got it. Now I’m freaking out.
I swapped the dual stabilzer for the stock and got it quicker so I knew soemthing else was going on.
I took it to the dealer for an alignment and the service tech said it was the steering stabilzer. What BS! I just checked that. I asked him to have the guys an alignment anyway just so I could check the box and they have to check the tie rod ends and ball joints to accurately do an alignment anyway (allegedly). they said all was OK and of course did not experience the DW on their test drive.
Does anything ever go wrong on a test drive….NO!
Soon as I jumped in the Jeep and got about a mile away I got it again. Dealers are such wingnuts sometimes. I’ve done all the work on my Jeep myself and I hate taking stuff to other people. I may have trust issues.
Bottom line, it was the bracket provided in my lift kit to relocate the track bar. All the bolts were loose! Yikes, what a dumb ass. I should know better but I didn’t check them. It didn;t take much but it was the cause of my DW.
I tightened all the bolts and like magic the DW went away, I am welding that thing in place tomorrow. The instructions recommend it but it should be required. I know they were just trying to market the kit as a “bolt on” to sell more but you gotta weld those things in place.
Thanks for all the help.
Latter.
Amen, and amen…another Death Wobble problem fixed. Good call, good research, and thanks for the post!
Will a 2 inch spacer lift screw up my suspension on my 1998 jeep grand Cherokee 4×4 Laredo?
Not at all. A 2″ lift is the least “invasive” type of lift kit, as it uses the factory springs. You’ll need 1.5″ longer shocks, though.
Thank U VERY MUCH! I will do that & b in-touch. I’m not against havin a VERY nice long arm kit cause will not b droppin lift any & m gonna want to know wich 2 buy. Ankx again & 4 your speedy response. p.s. My 285x75x16 r those equivalent to 31? or 33′s?
WOW! Well written article THANK U for all th info & yes i’ve noticed u (Kevin) answer almost every 1, ankx again. I have a ’95 ZJ on 285x75x16′s (O.E. rims where 15 so need to account for th diff.) It’s in need of a new front track bars/kit. How do i figure out exactly wat size lift kit (I bought Jeep with kit already installed) is on it & where it came from? I’ve been told it’s a 6in. kit & has a Rubicon Express front track bar although supposedly not a match with rest of lift kit. Wanna verify so i buy th right track bars, poss. steering stabilizer. I’ve heard 2 stay away from long arms unless yur a trail rig. Plz rspnd asap
Thanks for your kind words. I disagree completely to stay away from Long Arms unless you’re using it for a Trail Rig only…that’s a load of crap. Installing more than about 2.5″ of lift on a short-arm (factory-ish-length arms) system gives you a very quick exponentially decreasing ride quality. In other words, there is a large difference in ride quality if you go from 2.0″ to 3.5″, even if you kept the same springs and shocks. That exponential decrease in ride quality gets measurably worse and worse with every inch. 4.5″ is a LOT worse than 3.5″, and 5.5″ is a LOT LOT worse than 4.5″. If you’re sitting at 6″ on short arms, your ride quality must be HORRIBLE. I had 5.5″ on my ZJ with short arms a long, long time ago, before long arm systems were even “invented”, and it used to fish-tail down the highway because of the angle of the rear control arms, which makes it rear-steer like a forklift.
You can measure the height of lift by putting the tip of a tape measure at the center of the hub on the front tire, wheels pointed straight ahead, and have someone hold it for you while you check to see what the measurement is at the lip of the fender (factory, non-cut or clearanced fender). The ZJ came with 18.25″ from the factory, and you might be down to 17.5″ or so as the front coils sag over time and mileage. Take your number (say 24.25″, if you had exactly 6″ of lift…) and subtract 18.25″ from it, and you’ll get within a half-inch of the amount of lift on it.
My recommendation would be to drop the amount of lift down to 3.5″-4.5″ MAXIMUM if you’re not in the market for Long Arms, or scrape all the pennies together needed for a VERY nice-riding Long Arm kit, even at 7″ or 8″ of lift.
Hey Kevin. Just found your website. This is great info! I recently bought a 95 Grand Cherokee Orvis V8 and am experiencing the death wobble. I am definitely going to spend some time under the jeep this weekend but my question is this: When I purchased it, I did all the normal things you do when buying a used vehicle, including having Sears give it a front end alignment. I know my Orvis has the Up country suspension, which lifts it appr 1 inch (compared to my friend’s 96 GC laredo). When I had the alignment done, they advised I needed a CV axle and steering stabilizer. I had a mechanic (not them…they wanted $300 for it…) replace the cv axle and I replaced the SS with a rancho. Anyway, is it possible they alligned it to a standard GC height and not the Orvis and that causes the DW? I don’t have unlimited funds to throw parts at it so am trying to get a little guidance. Will have them realign if need be. I believe either way I will replace the track bar bushings with your SD ones…I assume the stock track bar requires the kit with the sleeves. If I do end up having to go with a new track bar, I intend to pick up yours. Are the bushings reusable to swap to the new track bar? Thanks for all your assistance. I have learned way more about DW than I ever expected to
Ben:
Yes, it’s possible that they aligned it to the stock spec, but if yours is lifted (even with UpCountry) and have slightly larger tires, I’d recommend having them set it to a lifted Jeep setting…dialing out the toe-in at the very minimum.
Yes, the bushings are reusable in the JKS track bar if you purchase that later. The factory track bar is weak, though, so you’ll get a large increase in strength with the JKS bar. Unless you’re having difficulty getting the rent paid, you will want to consider just doing the JKS bar at the same time. It’s a lot of work to re-do later on. If the factory track bar was just fine, I’d never recommend doing so.
Thanks Kevin. I will start with that reallignment and will order the new part by the end of the month
Started getting the death wobble above 30 MPH. All the time. Will look over everything tomorrow. Mechanic if needed. FWIW, caster when Sears did it was set to 6.1 left and 6.3 right
Remembering I have a Jeep service manual i see that their specs for caster is 6.5-7.5. So it’s not aligned correct.
Anything between 4.5 and 6.5 should be just fine, though. Toe-in is far more important to get perfectly accurate, and often, that requires trial and error.
Turns out I ended up having a bad front drive shaft. Getting it rebuilt. Will be installing that and the death wobble cures soon
I have an 06 jeep wrangler. Death wobble is BAD! so far I have replaced the trackbar with the Heavy Duty terraflex one. My one mechanic had mentioned the drop pitman arm was bad so I got the terraflex +4″ heavy duty one as well as an old man emu Heavy duty stabilizing shock. We realligned the wheels and even did the “pigeon-toe” placement as recommended. after all that, I still have the wobble. Im begining to develop an ulcer in my stomach when I seed the speedo approaching 35mph! Please help!
Oh and i almost forgot, I have had three different mechanics tell me that EVERYTHING in the front end is tight!
Shane: Did you already fully read through the article, and then double-check to make sure your mechanic followed each and every one of those steps? Did you also print it out for them to follow step by step?
If so, we may need to do a phone consultation and talk through it with you and your mechanic on the line. Not too many people follow all those steps and STILL have trouble…so make sure that they didn’t leave any steps out. Death Wobble is fully curable with the right adjustments and the right replacement parts. I’ve never once NOT been able to cure it, although some cases are a lot more difficult to cure. The common thread with “uncurable” Death Wobble, is that the mechanic (or owner) gives up too soon…JUST before they find the right combination to cure the problem. Make sure you don’t let them quit on the 1 yard line!!
I made some progress with my death wobble situation. I spent a few hours under the jeep and took it up to my mechanic freind and we deduced that the upper control arms, The inner tie rod on the pitman shaft, and the track bar ends showed wear and tear. He gave me a price for Moog brand control arms at $156 apeice and the inner tie at $64.00 apeice. He wants to charge me 391.99 in parts and 189.75 in labor. He also quoted me an alignment for 50 bucks. Total with tax and all is 664.73 plus the cost of the track bar. Does that sound right? I Also have another problem… I orderded a secondary stabilizer and was planning on installing it on the stock track bar. It has already been shipped and i was wondering if i could possibly exchange it for the other one made for the JKS track bar, or if you can just send me the hardware needed to make it fit. Thanks for all your help. –Gino
I have a 04 grand cherokee limited v8 with a budget boost lift and bilstein 5100 shocks and a rancho steering stabilizer and the death wobbles have begun. just like you said at about 40-50 miles per hour. i live in Houston, Texas and just yesterday it happened to me on i45 and i10 near downtown i had to stop in the middle of the freeway. If you know where i am talking about then you would understand how hairy of a situation that is. it was rediculous. PLEASE tell me someone knows a reputable guy down here or nearby. This is a very dangerous problem. I LOVE my jeep and the death wobbles are a curse and by God i will find the cure. I dont care how long it takes me. I do care how much money i spend. One guy told me he would replace all the rod ends and bushings for 450. is that a good price? is there a bushing kit that contains all urethane bushings? Is there any components recommending replacement with a 2.5 inch lift?
This website is awesome.
–Gino
Assuming tie rod ends are about $50 each, that means about $250 in labor. At $100/hour, that’s 2.5 hours, which sounds like about an hour longer than it needs to be, but maybe they are charging you for the alignment on top of the labor?
If anyone knows of a Texas shop who specializes in Death Wobble, or has dealt with it successfully, will you please post up? I don’t personally know of any.
Kevin
I would appreciate any info you mite have on the death wobble of my 2006 Dodge mega cab 4×4 with a 2″ coil spring spacer up front.
I haven’t spent much time under the Dodges, but I can tell you that there are a LOT of shared or similiar components, so this guide SHOULD lead you toward a cure, even though it’s specific for Jeep.
Kevin,
Since I live in Security, CO., I’m not able to hop down to AZ for you to possibly fix, plus I’d shake, rattle, and roll myself apart before I got there. I got my 99 Jeep Cherokee Sport to replace my current vehicle (lease is up 30 Sept), so I have time to fix/replace what is necessary to stop the horrible feeling that “death wobble” causes. I don’t plan to do any radical mods as I only want to go off road to the out-of-way places to fly fish and prospect. At 65, I’ve put all the hair raising experiences way behind me. I haven’t gone to your site to see the prices your track bar and other suspension parts that you feel OEM replacements aren’t sufficient, nor am I a do it yourself type of person, but at today’s hourly shop rates, I’m going to learn how to bust knuckles and have dirty hands and fingernails very fast. You’re words of expertise are greatly appreciated, and yes, I’ve read you beginning article, and plan to start and have some basic alignment/test procedures done. I assume getting to the bottom of the cause can be expensive over the long run. Thanks.
Pat
hello i have all the same problems everyone ealse listed but i dont know that much about my jeep i have a 1999 cheerokee sport not and xj….. what kit to i seek? what part catagory am i looking for because as i look around i dont see anything to fit my jeep i want to buy the wobble fix kit with the track bar that does not have a joint and possibaly the urathain bushings. but which one fits my jeep it has a 3-4 inch lift and a serious wobble i also heard that the urathane busshings ware out faster it is smarter to use stock ones.
Ben:
A Cherokee *is* an XJ. XJ is the two-letter code Jeep uses to refer to the Cherokee, irrespective of it being a Sport or Laredo or whatever package it came with. So, look in the XJ category for parts that will fit yours.
Stock bushings generally allow more movement than a really stiff urethane bushing, which is why we use urethane in our track bars. Both rubber and urethane wear out over time…they are designed that way.
yes but the sport and laredo are two different types of jeep right?? i dont have an owners manual or anything how can i tell what i am looking at, (i know it is a stupid question but i just want to make sure i get the right stuff i have a lot of problems with the little things) i have a 1999 jeep (xj) cherokee sport. i did not find much on your sight for the wobble fix do you know of anywere ealse i can look,
Ben:
I didn’t see your response until just now…my apologies for not answering sooner. I think you already ordered, but I wanted to answer your question:
“Sport” and “Laredo” are interior and exterior “packages” that are available for the XJ Cherokee. With VERY few exceptions, suspension upgrades for the ’87-’01 Cherokees are all the same over the years.
Here is a direct link to everything we offer to solve Death Wobble problems for your year / model Jeep Cherokee: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_64
Kevin, I’ve enjoyed reading your responses. I’m struggling to find out what is causing my DW. At this point, the 4WD shop has had my jeep almost a month and have tried almost everything. They are very frustrated at this point as well. The DW began while I had a budget boost on it and continues now I have upgraded to a ProComp II 4″ lift. They upgraded the control arm to a Rock Krawler and it continued. We have balanced tires and aligned everything to spec (above and below even) many times. We’ve run different tires and wheels at different sizes to try to isolate it to wheel/tire. We’ve checked to make sure everything is tight and spent a lot of time under looking for cracks in frame or anything that might help. We just upgraded to steering components (drag link and tie rod) which seemed to help in combination with everything else quite a bit…..but still not all the way there. We are absolutely stumped……they have solved many DW issues for others but have never come up against this demon. They are not sure if it will work, but they can only think that possibly a new steering box might help. There is nothing visible they can see and think something might be happening under load that can not be seen or replicated on the shop floor. They don’t want to put it on either because they are not 100% sure but this is where we are. Any thoughts would be grateful.
If the steering box is loose, and the sector shaft “wobbles” a bit, then definately replace it and see if that resolves the issue. Bring it on by our shop in Phoenix if you’re anywhere nearby, and we’ll look at it for you for free.
I have a 4″ rough country lift on an 06 tj. I had 31 x 10.5 15s and when I rotated in my spare I started getting the death wobble. I had the tire balanced and it got better except while breaking from 50 mph. Now I put 33s on and had them balanced but still the same problem while breaking. The only thing I noticed loose while under the jeep was the left side sway bar link was loose do you think this could be the culprit? Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks
Anything loose is a possible culprit, however, did you already check the tire pressure?
I have been after a death wobble problem and this is a great bit of information thanks Kevin.
Thank you for shareing that its helped me alot
Hi Kevin,
I have a 1998 JGC with a death wobble. Do you know of any good reputable mechanics in Denver (Arvada area)? This is the third jeep I have owned and have never had this problem. My dealer has tried everything and does not know what to do. I just found out about this DW today on the internet. Please reply ASAP. Thank you
Kerry: My recommendation would be to search Google for “Denver Jeep Clubs”, join their forum (if required), then, after becoming a member, you can search “death wobble” or “alignment” or “shop” on THEIR forum, to see who THOSE guys are using. I don’t know of anyone in Denver that I can turn you onto right away, but there are a LOT of our customers in the Denver area.
You might want to contact “Big Dave”, who is a personal friend of mine, and who owns the http://www.MallCrawlin.com forum. He lives in Denver, and so do a lot of his friends…all of whom have dealt with Death Wobble in the past.
Hey Thanks a lot Kevin some great useful information really appreciated ..
89 Cherokee Lareo
94 Cherokee Sport.
My pleasure, my friend!
Hi there…
I just came across this site in my death wobble search, and all I can say is that this Kevin here is a hell of a guy… did anyone else notice that he has answered pretty much each and every one of these questions, and in detail? I just noticed that and thought that was really cool of him, so I wanted to post and commend him on this!
I had death wobble last year, but mistook it for tires out of balance. I needed tires at the time, so I went ahead and got new ones. All has been well for about year until recently. Death Wobble has returned, and I’m about to crawl under the Jeep, and check it out today. I also have a stabilzer handy that I am going to put on.
Keep up the great work, and wish me luck!
Sheldon
Thank you, Sheldon…I appreciate the acknowledgment.
Luck!
I had a death wobble problem several years ago and after several track bars I ended up with a JKS bar, but the thing that absolutely stopped the death wobble was when I went to a long arm suspension. In the mean time I installed a Currie steering set up and after about 18 months all the tie tod ends on the Currie are bad. To replace all the ends is about half the cost of the entire Currie kit so I changed to the ORO only steering. Before I replaced the Currie system I was beginning to feel a little wobble again and the ORO steering really didn’t change that. I don’t like my JKS track bar mount on the frame because it is a single shear. I have had some trouble with keeping the bolt mounting the bar to the frame side tight. I say your video on your system and am impressed with the track bar frame mount that you have. All I need to know is, will you system work with my ORO steering and do I have to use a dropped pitman arm? If it works with the ORO and I don’t need to use the dropped P arm. I will place an order. Thanks; G.H.
Glen:
I think we already spoke, but the Track Bar Conversion will not affect, in ANY way, either the Currie or the ORO steering upgrades. We recommend you do NOT run a drop pitman arm if you can get away without it.
Kevin,
Most of the questions here are about 4WD jeeps with lift kits. I have a 94 Grand Cherokee Laredo 2WD with everything stock. Is there anything different to look for on it?
Thanks,
Jason
The only difference with the 2wd Jeeps are that there is less axle mass, which NORMALLY translates into less propensity for Death Wobble. All of the tips/tricks/how-to’s you’re reading here apply directly to the 2wd models also.
Hi Kevin,
After reading your article I find it more informative than what the dealership has lead me to believe. I have one question for you but before I ask let me give you a description of what I’m driving: 2008 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited X 4×2 is the name on the paperwork. Bought the vehicle in June July or August 2009 in N.C. 3-4 mos ago started feeling a vibration on acceleration/ coming to a stop. Went to the dealership just last week for them to tell me that the dampers need to be replaced and I need new tires and hopefully the problem will go away. Replaced the dampers but did not get the tires. On the way home not even 10 mins from the dealership felt the deathwobble worse than I did before the dampers were replaced. Called them right away to ask how safe is it to drive the vehicle? They told me not safe at all until I replace the tires.
So my question is where are you located and what kind of warranty do give for the product you are promoting, do you perform this work, and what kind of guarantee do you offer for your work? Worried and concerned its bad enough the dealership is ripping people off. Just curious?
Crystal:
We are located in Phoenix, Az, and we stand behind all of our work. We will not give up until the problem is fixed. In all honesty, I don’t know of a shop anywhere who is better at curing Death Wobble (or has had more cures, either one) than we are. However, driving from North Carolina with Death Wobble to get us to fix it is probably NOT your best bet, lol.
Death Wobble begins when hitting a bump, typically with the right tire first, and the entire front end starts to shake violently back and forth. Is that what you’re experiencing, because from your description, it doesn’t sound like it is.
i have a 99 wrangler with a 6in lift and 35s and i have what looks to be a stock track bar the kind that look like a tie rod end and when i try to tighten it the stud and the nut both spin at the same time while nothing gets tighter and what air pressure should i run in my interco trxus m/ts 35s x12.50 i have checked everything i have no play but only in my track bar i am going to assume i will need a good balance and tire rotation as well as a front end alignment 1/8 a good toe in? for my jeep?
Mikkel:
I know you already ordered the replacement track bar from us, but I’m going to answer your question anyway, for the benefit of the page:
If you’re having difficulty tightening down the shaft of the tie rod end on the track bar, then you should remove it and inspect the shaft and the tapered hole it slides into. If everything looks fine, then installing the JKS-125 or JKS-126 track bar is what I recommend, because the JKS bar has a bolt head on the top AND the bottom, so that you can crank the crap out of it, and get it nice and tight.
I have not yet found a fix for getting the tapered shaft to seat into the tapered hole, other than replacement with a proper bar/bolt assembly, unfortunately.
Hi Kevin, this site has been extremely helpful! I have a 2007 Jeep Wrangler with 45,000 miles. I bought it used and purchased an extended warranty. I’ve been getting the dreaded DW at speeds of around 55 on the highway. I’ve been to the dealership and they’ve replaced the damper and entire front end. Fortunately, my warranty covered it, but it was over $1500 of work. It continues to happen and they keep telling me that they already fixed the cause of the problem and as a woman; making it seem as if I’m making it up. When I referred to it as the DW, they actually got really short and defensive with me, and it seems they keep making up different things as an excuse. They keep realigning my car saying that I must be hitting potholes…not true. They’re telling me that maybe I’ve bent the wheel casing though it’s not showing in the diagnostic. Basically a lot of run around and now they’re starting to blame it on my “use” of the car and trying to get me to pay for these random solutions they’re offering when in actuality, the problem was never fixed. Any suggestions?
Nakia:
What you can do is print out copies of our how-to-cure page and take it to the dealership, hand it to them, and have them follow it step by step, fixing what’s loose or not set correctly until it drives perfect.
It has NOTHING to do with how you drive any more than it has to do with the phases of the moon.
Hi, great website.I have a few questions about DW. I have a 2010 jeep wrangler with a 4″ lift & 35″ tires.Starting getting death wobble at about 5000mi after lift installed.I seem to get it around 20-35mph. Everthing seems tight underneath. If I were to change out tracbar want would you recommend? I’m running a skyjacker lift with a relocation tracbar bracket, would I run a stock size tracbar with the bracket. Do you think the stabilizer shock would be worn out with only 7000mi on it? This jeep gets babied and hardly sees any off roading. What tire pressure would you recommend? I’m running 35″ pro-comps.
Thanks for any advice, Tom.
It’s been aiimost a month and know response. What gives???
Tom:
I didn’t see your original post until now…apologies for the delay in answering. Without seeing it with my own eyes, I am not able to be much help, but it sounds like doing a JKS track bar and a set of our SuperDurometer track bar bushings with hardware would be the absolute minimum. I would also consider the JKS Steering Stabilizer Relocation Bracket and one of our Hard-KOR Steering Stabilizers as a replacement for the one you have and then get a good solid front end alignment afterwards. We also sell an entire package, which includes all those parts, here: JK Wrangler Death Wobble Kit
Kevin,
I have a 2007 wrangler X. 17 inch stock rims and Goodyear tires. Have 41K miles on it and have had several bouts with the Death Wobble over the past 1.5 years. Started when I hit a pothole going 65MPH. Now it happens anytime I hit a decent size bump on the right side. I see a whole lot of technical fixes on here. Had a mechanic go through and check the tightness of all the bolts in the steering and suspension. Still have a lot of flutter and he is saying I need new tires. Not so sure I believe that to be the root cause as they have quite a bit of tread left. Not sure if I am mechanical enough to install the fix kit you offer. Do you know anyone in the Cincinatti area that you would recommend/trust to go through my Jeep and get this thing licked. BTW..blew out the steer dampner and I installed a new OEM one….seems to have helped, but not fixedOther option is to fix with your kit myself…just worried it might be over my head(Are there detailed instructions/diagrams of how to fix?) I can do the work if I have an explanation and/or pictures to help.
Mike:
Installing the kit is not a real simple/easy type of thing, and really best left to a mechanic. Anyone can do anything with the right instructions, but you may lack the experience that a good mechanic might have. Each piece has it’s own install instructions on the Instruction pages if you’re interested in reading through to see if it’s something you want to handle yourself.
Kevin, i have a 2004 dodge ram 2500 cummins, with a 2 inch leveling kit and 315 kelly tires. I have a serious death wobble but it only occures when i hit a pothole or uneven spot on the road. whats your recommendation on fixing this problem?
Dustin:
I’m not intimately familiar with the underside of your Ram, but I know it’s very similar to the Jeep. It’s probably your track bar or track bar bushings, along with a weak steering stabilizer and/or a bad tow-in setting. In the future we’ll probably add some Dodge stuff to our site, but I need to do more research first.
Kevin, Iam thinking about buying a new 2011 Wrangler Sahara. Iam moving to montana so i need a 4×4. This 4×4 will remain stock, will i have to deal with death wobble? I will be off road, but nothing severe.
If it’s new, it’s not terribly likely, but certainly not unheard of. Once you have some miles on it, and things wear out, it’s more likely.
By the way, we’ve cured Death Wobble on Dodge, Ford, and Chevy 4×4 trucks. Just because it’s independant suspension (Chevy) doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get Death Wobble.
Normally, lifting the truck or Jeep will give you a higher propensity to have it happen.
Kevin
First, thanks so much for all the great info. I didn’t realize the problem we just fixed on our 95 grand cherokee was called death wobble but I think that must have been what we fixed when we replaced the track bar before an alignment last month. So far so good with no wobble but the steering still seems loose. The cheap aftermarket track bar with a tie rod end went in tight, so tight that we had to loosen the bracket on the drivers side wheel well to get it in then tightened it up afterwards.
Did we likely wear anything out by driving with a wobble for several days? Thanks again.
Rick:
Even one case of Death Wobble is enough to shake something else loose, or damage components enough that they will not have the resistance to death wobble that they used to. However, in most cases, once you’ve gotten it ‘set’ so that it’s not DW’ing, you can leave well enough alone. The ‘tell’ if you DO have some other components, is that DW will come back, and then you’re right back to square one…looking for loose/broken/cracked stuff.
i have a 2005 jeep unlimited has 4in lift,18in wheel 4plys,after market track bar,slow the wobble down. but did not fix. only 16000 mile on jeep,would like buy your kit to fix the wobble. thanks clint. (575)760-2178. please call me. not very good on computer.
Clint – We’re not set up for phone orders, but you can order it on our website right here:
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=42_65
Ok, I have another set that is close I’ll try first to see if it gets better. If I’m headed in the right direction then I’l look into a better more perminate solution. Thanks again, Mike.
Hello Kevin, I’ve eliminated all my other issue’s I believe and I’m down to my track bar bushings are to soft I believe. I was wondering what the demintions are of the Durometer bushings. I used poly spring bushings to build my track bar which are 1.75OD X 5/8 ID and 2″ length. I would like to find a smaller OD and larger ID and machine steel sleaves to make up the difference. I’ve already got a lot of work in this track bar and would like to make it work, but if need be I’ll do something different. Then my last step would be a steering stabilizer. Thanks much, Mike.
Mike:
Our bushings fit the factory track bar, and the JKS bar, and all other aftermarket bars that use the same-as-factory bushing dimensions. I know the OD is only like 1.4″ if memory serves…the ID is 7/8″ and they are 1.6″ thick when paired together. They will definately NOT work with your bar…you’d need to get a JKS-127 track bar to run them:
Hi Kevin,
We have a 2001 Grand Cherokee WJ with a 6 ” Clayton lift on 35′s. I drive it, and the death wobble was terrifying last time. Usually, it occured under 40mph, but last time I was doing almost 50mph. We had it aligned and discovered the U joints were toast. Replaced three U joints and front bushings. I am scared of it happening again, especially with my kids in the car. Not a lot of confidence in the places that have looked at it. Any suggestions?
I’d suggest a set of KOR-1199 SuperDurometer bushings and a toe-in alignment check, assuming you already have the JKS-127 bar under there with the Clayton Kit Upgrade (typically sold together). If you don’t, then pick up one of those also!
KOR-1199 SuperDurometer bushings:
JKS-127 Free Shipping –
Amie:
You may want to do some research, but I do believe that you have a Federal law working in your favor that says you have a 3-day “right of recision” on any contract, and that includes automobiles, if I’m not mistaken.
We can solve it, but hell…on the trip HOME it has this problem, and the dealership says “no returns”??!! Oh…I’d be in the mood to call in an airstrike on them at this point, lol. What a crappy way to treat a customer!
Did you pay cash? Can you stop payment on the check? Did you finance? You can call the finance company and get them to hold off on funding.
The good news is that we can cure the problem with some of the parts we sell…but I think your dealership should be paying for the parts, frankly.
Thanks for the feed back. I’ve almost got it cured. A steering stabilizer would fix it at this point I beleive. My track bar I had to custom build to fit around the high pinion D44(which is a surprisingly tight fit with 3.5″ lift). I did use a common 2″ spring bushing that would possibly interchange with your Super Durometer bushing? And you were right about loose parts, when I got the Bronco it already had the powersteering on it, but they didn,t sleeve the frame when they bolted the box on so it has compressed and come loose. Next on my list. Thanks again, Mike.
I just bought a 07 Wrangler X last night. On my way home from the dealership on the highway it started to shake VIOLENTLY going around a curve at about 60mph. I found you guys through an internet search
I’ve had a 93 and an 02 Wrangler and never had any of these problems? The used car dealer has a no return policy, so I guess I’m the newest member of the “DW Club”. My question is where do I start??? I can’t believe I’ve only had this Jeep for less than 24hours 
I do have the standard 60 day/3,000 mile warranty but this place is not a Jeep dealership. I did place a call to Chrysler but of course they have never heard of this being a problem but they would have a Senior Specialist call me. Any suggestions on what to do first? Any help would be much appreciated (sure wish i lived in AZ) 
Amie:
You may want to do some research, but I do believe that you have a Federal law working in your favor that says you have a 3-day “right of recision” on any contract, and that includes automobiles, if I’m not mistaken.
We can solve it, but hell…on the trip HOME it has this problem, and the dealership says “no returns”??!! Oh…I’d be in the mood to call in an airstrike on them at this point, lol. What a crappy way to treat a customer!
Did you pay cash? Can you stop payment on the check? Did you finance? You can call the finance company and get them to hold off on funding.
The good news is that we can cure the problem with some of the parts we sell…but I think your dealership should be paying for the parts, frankly.
My pleasure, Mike!
im dealing with death wobble and i cant cure it i have a f350 with a dana 60 in the front and a 6 inch suspension lift i run 37 inch tires with 20 psi in them dual steering stabilizer all new drag link tie rod ends i just dont no what else it could be
Corey:
Did you already read through everything on how to cure the problem here: http://kevinsoffroad.com/death-wobble-cures/how-to-fix-your-own-death-wobble/ . Did you do all those things? If not, try those out, and if so, confirm you’ve done everything on the list, then give me your list of everything you’ve done so far in addition to that list, and I’ll try to help.
Hi Kevin…I have an ’06 Wrangler Unlimited which began the DW at 22,000 miles. After alignments, tire rotations and wheel balancing I finally replaced the tires which eliminated the problem until now. I currently have about 12K on the new tires (they have been rotated every 3k miles) and the DW is beginning. I have also had to replace the brake pads at about 36K b/c the DW went into high gear if I braked between 55-60 mph. I am again having the same problem after about 20k on the new brake pads. Read you advice and was wondering if you could recommend someone knowledgeable in the DW arena. I live in Orange County and work in Riverside, Ca. Thanks for your help.
Michelle:
If you contact the Offroad Unlimited store, or Four Wheel Parts near you, and ask them if they have someone who’s AMAZING at curing Death Wobble, that’s going to be your best bet. And, if you find someone who was effective in curing the problem, please let me know who that is, so that I can list them on our website to help others with the problem.
Hello Kevin, I have an early box Bronco that had the Dana 30 which I built a high pinion 44 and did a custom 3-link with panhard bar. Every thing is all new with high steer arms and a 3.5 Wild Horse lift. My drag link and panhard bar at ride hight sit almost level in the truck. My caster I set at +5 which I thought would give me good road feel and handling, but I get the dreded DEATH WOBBLE at about 35 to 40 MPH. I’m 35″ Toyo which I ran for about a year before and drove great. I told I need to roll my caster back to +3. The old axle, which was bent and some what abused I beleive sat at +1. I’ve been told with the taller the tire the less caster you want because of the point of intercection to the ground moves out, and can cause DW. My friends at a frontend shop have had this with lifted Dodge trucks and fixed with less caster. Any expereince with this? I was hoping not to have to run a steering dampner because I never needed one before with the same lift. I’ve been a mechanic for over 20yrs, mostly in heavy equipment so I don’t deal very much with drivabilty any more. Any opinions most appreciated, Thanks, Mike.
Even with lift, we like to set our caster to around 4.5-degrees, so that the steering will re-center properly on the D30 and the D44 axles under the rigs we work on in our shop, curing Death Wobble. However, that said, I’ve never found caster to be a large contributing factory to Death Wobble. Loose parts, bad toe-in, and weak track bars and track bar bushings are typically the cause. We’re working on an Early Bronco track bar set up, which would be a modified version of what we sell for the TJ/LJ/JK/WJ/ZJ/XJ, and will allow you to run our SuperDurometer bushings to tighten up the steering and axle connection nicely.
I’m looking at buying this new Currie trackbar: http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=3488
It appears to be very similar to the JKS bar except the frame mount is offset. Would you know if the axle end of this bar is the same as the JKS? I’d like to get this bar because it allows more clearance from the front diff, and have the bushing replaced with your high durometer axle bushings.
Currie basically took the bar and moved the attachment point a bit further forward, and gussetted the back side of it, so that you can run it with less than 1″ of lift…so it’s exactly the same as the JKS bar, just offset. Currie makes the Johnny Joints for JKS, and JKS makes the bars for Currie. Both bars have the same components.
i have a 2007 jeep wrangler. ihave replaced the trac bar,shockes,stab,bar,inner tie rod and outer shimmie shock and aslo had a alignment on it it does the death wobble at 60 and quits at 345 to40 please let me know what to do .
Jane:
If you’re doing the work yourself, just follow the article step by step. If you’re not, then find a local shop who can help, print out the instructions, and have them help.
Kevin
I have a 92 cherokee laredo and can’t get rid of my death wobble. I replaced the steering linkage with the crown auto HD kit, I replace all 4 ball joints,steering stabilizer,stabilizer end links,and track bar with oem replacement parts. I did an alignment and got everything in spec with the front tires toed in slightly but still in spec. I balanced the tires and tried different tire pressures 28,30,32.35 and I still have death wobble, not as bad as the first time I got it before all the new parts but its still there. The next step I was gonna take is poly control arm bushings or just new oem arms, and adjust the caster. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Nick:
That article that we wrote on How to Fix Death Wobble is the best resource I have available to you via the web. If you want to bring it by our shop, I’ll look at it for free for you and tell you what’s going on under there, but we’re in Phoenix, and I have no idea where you are located.
Read through the article, follow all the steps, and I think you’ll see what’s happening under there, causing the problem. Yes, there is some hunt-and-peck to this method, unless you have a local Jeep shop who specializes in Death Wobble, and will guarantee their work.
We offer Death Wobble packages for this reason (not knowing exactly what to fix), and they normally cure the problem about 90% of the time. They are available here: Death Wobble Packages
Kevin
thank you this really helped me out!
My pleasure, Tim!
Kevin,
I have a 1999 WJ with an IRO 6 1/2″ long arm lift, JK Rubicon rear end and 1″ spacers in the front to even out the wheel base. It has the IRO adjustable track bar with your bushings in it.I only have IRO’s relocated upper steering stabilzer on it and not one in the stock location. I run a 17×8 rim with 4″ backspacing and 265X75X17 Mud Terrains
The first 6-8 months I had no with Death Wobble. Now I’ve been trying to cure it for 6 months. I’ve replaced all the ball joints and tie rod ends and put your track bar bushings in it.I’ve tried different tire presures,have balanced the tires, more toe in,less toe in,etc.
Is the JKS track bar much different then IRO’s?? Should I replace their’s with a JKS??
Also I don’t run the 2nd SS (Chuck, I think you’re referring to the factory location for the stabilizer here, right?) as I always thought they would just mask the D/W and not solve the cause. Also they are so low they get destroyed on the trail. Should I put one back in the stock location anyway and just replaced it as it gets destroyed??
Next question, IRO recommended lowering the upper track bar mounting point 2 1/2 inches (they sell a kit for this) and puting a 2 1/2 ” dropped pitman arm on it to help with the D/W problem. What do you think?? Also would putting rims on with more backspacing help?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks, Chuck
Chuck: The cause of Death Wobble is the design of the suspension. It’s so close to having a problem, even from the factory, that EVERY component is integral in keeping it from happening. A common misconception is that the steering stabilizer “masks” the problem. B.S.! If the factory included a steering stabilizer, it was because dampening was necessary in this design, not because they decided to include extra parts because their profits were getting too high.
Now, that said, once you add a bunch of leverage (read: lift kit) and a bunch of mass (read: larger tires, heavier wheels) and then add even more leverage to that (read: wheel offset increases when aftermarket wheels are installed), you have essentially called in a full-on air strike assault on the factory components, which now need to be upgraded to stronger components. Track bars need to be thickened, Super-Durometer bushings need to be used, tire pressure needs to be lowered (so that the tires are not bouncing back on every bump so highly), steering dampening needs to be beefed up, and special care needs to be taken with respect to watching, proactively, for any other components that have gotten loose with all that added leverage and mass.
So, it would be impossible for a steering dampener from the factory to “mask” the problem that was created by the design of the front end, right, because it’s actually part *OF* the design. Simply put, if you add more mass and greater leverage, you need more dampening to combat those forces, in order to keep the “equation” balanced. Sure, it would be *GREAT* to never need a steering dampener, and I toyed with my ZJ for months to get it just right so that a dampener wasn’t needed. However, a steering dampener is part of the design, and “DAMPENS” the forces that create Death Wobble, canceling them out, so that it never happens.
Lastly, you ask about lowering the upper track bar mounting point and putting a drop pitman arm on. Based on what I mention above about leverage, I can’t see how this could possibly assist you. In fact, when we fix DW problems at the shop, we almost ALWAYS remove the drop pitman arm and any sort of track bar drop bracket that the Jeep came in with. So far, we’ve cured damned near 100% of the problems we’ve had, simply by removing leverage, adding dampening, and upgrading weak factory parts to accommodate the extra mass and leverage that a lifted Jeep with larger-than-factory tires has.
Oh, and I don’t see any reason to get a JKS bar…the IRO bar is also beefy…so spend your time and resources on getting the proper dampening on there, make certain it’s aligned properly, and take your tire pressure down to maybe as low as 24psi for 35″ or 37″ tires, and maybe down to 26psi for 33″ tires. There is no magic pressure, other than the pressure that allows you to roll over a bump and not have the tires feedback into the death wobble oscillation. (Please read “Boyle’s Law” if you’re questioning the lower tire pressures.)
Thanks for your time. I had been thinking about getting the JKS Bar because our 4×4 shop in Orange, CA thought the angles on my IRO Bar were wrong.(They have been in Business over 40 years and build offroad race jeeps and rock crawlers, etc.) I saw in the photo of the JKS Bar that It bends outward and then back in like the stock one while the IRO Bar doesn’t.
Maybe I’ll start by upgrading my Stablizer to one of yours plus adding the 2nd one.
Thanks, Chuck
The JKS bar uses a 3-bend design, following the lines of the original track bar (which is more difficult to manufacture, and requires specialized dies), and the IRO bar uses a 2-bend design. I think you’d get a bit less torsional loading and unloading with a 3-bend design.
Kevin,
I have the same lift as Chuck and running into a death wobble problem. I have checked the front end on my jeep and everything looks fine, had it aligned and was 100% better. The problem is now when driving down the road everything feels fine maybe some minor vibs, but if I hit a pot hole or deep crack in the road I get severe wobble and have to slow down or even stop to stop the wobble. Do you have any suggestions or comments on the issue? I have already replaced the stock SS with a after market one and the aligment shop said that the front camber was out (after talking to a mechinic about that he said that is the way they come from the factory and need to be replaced with a proper one anyways). I was thinking about getting the dual SS set-up but wanted any suggestions first.
Thanks
Chris
P.S Great write.
Hi,
I have a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I had the rotors and pads replaced on the front of the car. The day they got changed was they day that my wobbling had started. The rotors were used from a junk yard, but they assured us that they were fine. Could the wobbling be from the rotors being warped? My wobbling does not happen all the time, it mostly seems to be at random times, but only happens between the speeds of 45-60 mph, and it mostly happens when I break but also can happen accelerate and decelerate at a slower pace. I had an alignment done, tires balanced and rotated and psi checked. Do you think I should replace the used rotors and get new ones? Also how dangerous is it to be driving the vehicle with this death wobble, it’s been like this for about 9 months.
I’m not 100% certain you have “Death Wobble” from your description. Does the entire front end of the Jeep shake uncontrollably until you slow down to under 40mph and then it’s fine for a while? If so, that sounds like Death Wobble to me. If not, and it’s just vibrating when you hit the brakes, then warped rotors are the cause of that. It’s very likely that the rotors from the junkyard were warped when you got them (why didn’t you just buy new ones?). Definately get new rotors, but get upgraded ones, like Stillen or DBA or something. The discount auto parts stores carry ones that are cheap, and will warp. Also, there was an earlier rotor, and a later rotor. The mid-’01 rotors and previous had problems with warping, so they went to a new caliper in mid-’01, and that had a new rotor to go with it, if memory serves.
Kevin,
I have 2006 TJ, ridding on 15X8.5 rims Michelin LTX M/S-2 235/75P15 tires, its all stock. I get a bad death wobble at speed (50 mph). The jeep only has 34K miles on it. First thing I replaced was the front stabilizer (skyjacker), I have had the tires bal/rot several times. just replaced track bar will new OEM type, today just had front end alignment. The Jeep Dealer said my DW was cause by the front stabilizer, and said I needed to replace the after market one you the OEM. I did do so.
Mike
Mike:
Print out the “how-to” guide you read through and give that to the guy at the dealership, asking him to check everything over per the article. If he follows it step by step, he’ll be able to cure the problem for you. And, folks, don’t let the dealership weasel their way out of it, even if you do have a lift kit (I know you don’t, Mike, but if you Google the “Magnusson-Moss Act” and print that out for them as well, as ammunition if they are unwilling to assist.
If it’s out of warranty, then call around until you find a local Jeep mechanic or alignment shop who knows what “Death Wobble” means.
Kevin,
I have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (2dr) that is lifted 4″. I have 33.12.50 wrangler allterrains on 15.8 mickey thompson sidebiter wheels. I have had the lift on for over a year with no death wobble. I recently hit a bump with the right front wheel and the death wobble occured. All I could do was coast off of the road and stop. It only does it after hitting a bump on one side around 45-50 MPH. I am stationed on fort benning in the U.S. Army and don’t have a good jeep 4×4 shop around here that I know of. I replaced the tie rod end at the pitman arm with a Moog replacement tie rod end. I noticed that if someone turns the wheel and I observe, I see the track bar end on the frame moving up and down. This is also a tie rod type end.. Should I replace that next?? I can’t find any other broken or loose parts. The steering stabilizer was replaced when the lift went on a little over a year ago. I run nitrogen in the tires and have them balanced and rotated every 5,000 miles. The tires were put on last year and have less than 10,000 miles on them. Any suggestions for me would be appreciated. Thanks for your help.
Respectfully,
SSG Jeremiah Day
“Rangers Lead The Way”
First, Jeremy, thanks for your service to our country!
Yes, definately replace that tie rod end, if that’s the only thing you can see movement out of. You can also upgrade the track bar to the thick aftermarket JKS bar, and add the SuperDurometer bushings to it. We have a Death Wobble kit on our website, which is a good “blanket approach” to solving DW, and works about 90% of the time: Death Wobble Cure for TJ Wrangler
If you’re near Phoenix, AZ, bring it on by and we’ll look at it for free.
sorry to bother you again,but i woulnt call it death wobble anymore on my 94 zj v8,shorty arm kit,jks upper and lower control arms,and alot of your parts,new steering box,new front hubs,new front cv axles,new seay bar bushings i ordered from you 2 weeks ago,brand new ball joints,new heavy duty tie rod system,i replaced everything in front end,i spoike to a jeep specialist in my area tinight,mhe works oin all the jeeps for a jepp club in ny with alot of members,i told him i set to to what you said,he feels it is not alignment,he feels i need these brackets that work on an xk[he says xj and zj are basically same front end]and these drop control arm brackets make it like i have only 2 inches of lift instead of 5.5” of lift,he is a very good welder and can make anything work,he says i have a bumpsteer problem and this part from zj if he can amke it fit on my zj will fix my problem,it will decrease the steep angle of lca;s,it is not death wobble anymore,death wobble is when yu feel like you are goin gto die,this is a bad shimmy,i have been chasing this problem for over 6 months,i know you know what you are talking about and respect your opinion,any suggestions i would truly appreciate,i put together 4-5.9 rims i want to go to 35 i ch tires,i now have 31 inch,but i need to get rid of my front end problem before i can do that,i keep throwing money at problem with no end to the problem,he wates to drive my jeep on thursday to try to diagnose problem,any help i would really appreciate,i am very frustrated,thank you
Jordan: Hang in there…at least you’ve gotten the thing better than it was. We’re circling in on the cure here for you!
The lower control arm drop mounts like the ones run on an XJ may well fit, and will certainly reduce the angle of your short lower control arms. It’s worth a shot, but in my opinion, the alignment is FAR more likely the problem. Those alignment specs are a starting spot…dial the toe-in outward and inward from there and see what happens. Solving Death Wobble is labor-intensive, but it CAN be cured, in every case I’ve been involved in, at least. Lower your tire pressure in the front tires, and see at what pressure it stops doing it. Also, check for tires out of round, and bent wheels.
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for all the FREE information you have provided the hard working consumer. It is nice to know there are still people with morales and values in this world. My husband has a 2003 Dodge 2500 4×4. We have been struggling with the “Death Wobble” for about 2 years with the truck in and out of the dealership on numerous occasions (and we all know each visit is not cheap). Each time we are hopeful for a cure but low and behold we are scared to death with the death wooble. The dealership has taken no resposibility for what I believe is a major defect. Our truck now sits in the yard collecting dust because it is not a safe source of transportation for our family. My question is: have you heard of any class-action lawsuits or why Dodge has not fessed up to this problem? In this failing economy we have exhausted all savings and are unable to purchase one of your death wobble kits (which I believe should not be our financial burden in the first place). Do you know if Dodge is taking any financial responsibility for their defect? Once again THANKS for your help!
Lisa: Sorry to hear about your struggle. There are no class action suits that I’m aware of, but I do know (and have heard from others) that Chrysler takes the stance of “hmmm…never heard of it” in many of their dealerships, unfortunately.
.
Read through my Death Wobble cure article, and apply the info to the Dodge as best you can (the Jeep and the Dodge 4×4 are built very similarly) and perhaps you can get that thing back on the road again.
I have a 2008 jeep wrangler unlimited X. I have 30000 miles on this jeep and in the last three weeks we have rotated the tires twice, replaced Three (3) steering dampers,replaced u-joint, replaced tie-rod. Im under warranty but Im out of pocket an independant mechanic (who could not solve) and seven days of work sitting at the dealership only to have it not fixed. Ive lost faith and will no longer chance having my family in the vehicle. Ive started a case file with chrysler jeep but I am gettng little satisfaction. Ive researched for days and have gotten 1,000,000 cures. There is alot of good info on here and I will print it out and give it to the dealership. I have to say though Im not optimistic. Ive heard there is a regional jeep representative but they wont give me a way to contact this person. If anyone has any info I would appreciate it.
Richard:
Sorry to hear about the trouble you’ve gone through. Did you already have the dealership order up one of our JK Death Wobble kits? Diagnosing this over the internet is tough, because I can’t look at your Jeep and give you my opinion. If you’re anywhere near Phoenix, give us a shout, and we’ll look at it for free. Have them call me if they need more info, but tightening the steering components down is really the only cure.
Happy New Year!
Kevin
Thanks Kevin
I did give them a copy of your fixes. They installed a quadratec? steering damper
This worked for 2 weeks. I was back at the dealership today and have to go back on Friday for the day!! Corporate is now involved and they did extend my warranty to 60,000 miles for my trouble. I will give them another copy on Friday and encourage them to call. Unfortunetly im in Cape Cod Ma. or I would stop by!! Thanks again for the info and a place to vent.
Hello Richard,
I have the exact same DW problem as you on my 2008 Wrangler JK 4 doors. My car is stock, and has only 17,000 miles. I experienced the first DW about 1 month ago, then again about 2 weeks ago, and lately 4 times on a 25 miles freeway trip. Realy scarry, and dangerous. Like you, I read all kinds of things on the net, watched videos also about this problem, an since Kevin is too far from where I live, I decided to go to the dealer today, to expose the problem: They balanced and rotated the tires, checked the alignment, and replaced the damper ( they put a larger damper as recommended by Chrisler; $400 total… I know that this will not cure the problem, but hopefully just delay its effect for for a few months, until maybe a recall comes, or something.
I am willing to support you in your venture against Chrysler. You can contact me at any time.
Fred,
I finally got through to someone in corporate. He has been alot more helpful than the original people I was dealing with. He actually called me, Im not sure if it was because of the media I contacted or all of the postings I put around the internet. Chrysler compensated me for my time and aggrivation, However the problem still exists. Because of what they did for me Im willing to give them another chance at a fix. But this will be their last shot. I will get in touch if it doesnt work out. If there is a way to contact direct I can give you this mans name and # so maybe you can get some satisfaction.
Hello Richard,
I went to the dealership just last week and fix the problem I thought. On the way home the problem was worse than before they so-called fixed the problem. I would love the name and info for whoever you spoke to at corporate headquarters because I would like to resolve this problem before it gets worse.
Richard:
Just wondering if this go around worked on the fix? Did the dealer finally purchase the death wobble kit from Kevin? I have had almost the exact problem to the letter with our 2008 Wrangler X, and we are looking to start a claim against Chrysler. Ours is at the dealer for the 5th time; and has been for 3 weeks (they can’t figure out the cause). We gave them Kevin’s information; but obviously they haven’t looked into it too deeply.
Hoping yours turned out well. If not, we should get in touch…
I owned a few Jeeps in my life. I experienced the death wobble in my 2000 the Sahara back in 2003. I live in imperial valley California desert town 15 miles away from glamis.10 miles accros mexicalli border, so off road is really popular.Big population of Jeeps so death wobble is something common. The problem is warping brake discs,expansion and warping happens. When discs are hot and they hit cold. Water.sollution machine. Front and back discs and you will get rid of the wobble
Tony:
A somewhat common misconception is that Death Wobble is caused by brake rotors because both create a similiar vibration. However, in reality, a warped rotor causes a sudden slowing-down of the rotor as it rotates, which shakes the front axle just like death wobble, but it’s doing the shaking forward and rearward. A similar vibration can be caused by slamming the brake petal down on an ABS vehicle. That “pulse” you feel when the ABS kicks in is exactly the same vibration that’s happening when rotors are warped.
Death wobble, however, is a left-right vibration, and completely unrelated to brake rotors. Now, I’m not going to say that a Jeep which already has worn out front end components that need to be replaced ANYWAY is completely and totally unable to be triggered into a death wobble “convulsion” due to a really, really bad warped rotor, but I’d then immediately argue that speaking in terms of Physics, it would be ALMOST impossible to transmit a forward/rearward vibration which cycles once per wheel rotation directly into a left/right vibration which cycles many times per wheel rotation.
Kevin,
I have an ’07 4dr wrangler. I had a 3″ lift installed about a year and a half ago and have had the “death wobble” since then. The dealer has adjusted alignment(no help), replaced the steering stabilizer(no help) and recommended new tires. I recently purchased some bigger tires(LT295/70R17), which does help some. Does it sound like your JK fix kit will do the trick? Do you suggest a different steering stabilizer also? It seem like my local dealer and 4wd shop don’t have much experience with this problem. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott Smith
Charlotte NC
Scott:
It sounds like our JK Wrangler Death Wobble kit is exactly what you need, actually. And, yes, the steering stabilizer that comes in that kit will work far better than your factory one will.
Oh and I just saw the death wobble package. Is that compatible with any amount of lift?
Within reason…yes. How much lift do you have? I’d say that our bar is going to be too short to work for more than 8″ of lift, but should be good at least to that point (maybe even higher, though I’ve not tested it).
I really appreciate all this helpful information.. It is by far the most helpful site than any others out there. But I am suffering from death wobble extremely bad. I have an 88 Comanche with an 8″ lift and is sitting on 35″s and is my daily driver. I havent tried anything yet and am just now about to get started.. i was wondering if doing a long arm conversion would help with the death wobble and prevent less wear and tear on bushings and other front end components over time?
Thanks
-Blake
Though it’s not IMPOSSIBLE to have Death Wobble once a long arm kit is installed, it’s almost unheard of. The long arm kits will change the angle of the lower control arm, not only so that the Jeep rides reasonably once again, but also that angle change helps reduce the propensity for death wobble substantially! We recommend the Clayton Long Arm Systems because of the over-built control arms, the elated customer feedback, and their outstanding customer service, and we have the ability to buy any long arm system that exists in the marketplace! Here’s a link: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_53 and you can also learn more at http://www.claytonoffroad.com
Kevin,
Thanks a lot for you reply, I’m pretty sure this shop was at factory settings. I found out the major culprit in the play. The factory gear box from 1989 has a TON of play in it. Theres about 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel, where the u joint turns at the steering box but the pitman arm doesn’t move at all. I think I’m going to take it to a good performance 4×4 shop and get the alignment done after i swap out the steering box. Then I have to add some spacers on the front and rear because I’m going nuts listening to the wheels rub when turning when I have 6.5 inches of lift and only 33′s.
Play in the gear box will definitely give you Death Wobble trouble!! Congrats !!
Kevin
i have a 2007 jk with DW. iv noticed that the tracbar mounting bracket holes on the axel is ovaled. will the JKS tracbar brace remedy that by offering new mounting hole? any help would be great! thanks
Reuben:
The mounting hole is part of your Jeep, so no, the new track bar will NOT help that. However, if you can find a local welder who’s willing to weld a hardened washer over the hole which just barely fits over the bolt, you’ll be in MUCH better shape than you are now. If it’s only slightly oval-ed, then you can also drill it out to the next size up, and use a larger bolt instead.
Kevin
Kevin,
I have watched the evolution of the death wobble cure on your web site over the years and noticed that the adding a second steering stabilizer and the products to do so are no longer offered .
Im guessing that the second stabilizer was not the answer. Im also aware that you have done your research into the cause and cure of this problem and some things are a hit and miss in solving the problem. People like myself who do not have a flipping clue when it comes to this do appreciate what you are trying to do here.
I get tired of dealing with it and park my 97 ZJ . But now forced to drive it again as my main means I need to solve the problem.
You mention in your article on DW that offset upper ball joints are needed to return to stock Jeep specs. If I have my allignment done can they set the caster right without offset ball joints ? I have a 4 1/2″ Rubicon lift on my 97 ZJ.
Bruce:
Oooohh…actually, quite the contrary. We have had a lot of success with the dual stabilizer setup we’ve been using for years successfully on the WJ. If you go to http://kevinsoffroad.com/cart and click on the Death Wobble link in the menu, you’ll see all the parts we offer, including the dual WJ stabilizer.
In your case, I recommend our KOR-9001 Track Bar Conversion, our KOR-1199 Super-Durometer bushings, and one of our KOR-9309 Steering Stabilizers.
We also sell those parts packaged together, since it’s so damned difficult to figure out which one or two components are causing the problem, so by ordering everything new at once, often you can “reset” the issue, and cure the Death Wobble with one installation. The kits are all under the Death Wobble link above.
Ok , That set up is for the WJ. I thought it was for the ZJ , My bad ! What about the offset ball joints ? Do you have those as well and can the caster be set right without them ? I just read where Chris S. had play in his steering box so I looked at mine and found the same 3:” play. I recently replaced my box with one that I purchased from Checker or Autozone. Can you recommend someone who makes a good steering box ?
Thanks !
Bruce:
Offset ball joints can be obtained through the dealership, or from NAPA. I don’t recommend you use ANY OTHER STORE to purchase them from than those two.
On the steering box, the dealership sells reman boxes. They are a few bucks more, but have FAR better tolerances than any of the rebuilt boxes I’ve seen come out of AutoZone and the like.
Kevin, I’ve been through all the ropes on my 89′ XJ. Everything was fine after I had a rusty’s 6 inch lift installed along with 33″ mickey thompsons. It drove perfectly, then after a few rides off road I noticed death wobble starting to occur, so I just let the jeep sit for a few month’s. Now I’m back at it.
I took it to an alignment shop today and looked at ever component in the front end very carefully. There is NO play in anything, but the upper and lower control arm bushings. When you turn the wheels slowly left and right you can see the play, it almost looks like the differential is moving.
thanks for any advice,
btw the alignment is good as well
Chris:
What setting are they telling you that “good alignment” consists of? It’s amazing to me the number of alignment shops who set lifted Jeeps to factory settings, and don’t expect to have any problems with doing so.
If there is play in the UCA and LCA bushings, that I would recommend you replace them for several reasons, but I think that the alignment setting may be your largest problem with solving the death wobble problems.
Sender: Ryan M
Subject: death wobble
Hi there kevin. Just recently i purchased one of your death wobble kits for my 2008 jeep wrangler unlimited. when i went to install it i also noticed that the holes on the jeep bracket are ovaled out from wear, do you have any suggestions? should i used a larger bolt and drill the holes in the bracket larger? do i need the sleve in the bushing or could i just use a bolt large enough to fit tight in the bushing? Your product does look well made and am looking forward to using it, any help would be great
thanks Ryan
Hey there, Ryan. Any time there is an ovalled hole, I always recommend drilling it out to the size just slightly larger than the oval. If you can get away with a 9/16″ bolt, that would be ideal. If you have to go larger, be very careful about how much “meat” you’re leaving on the outside of the hole. Simply get a bolt the proper size you selected, and then bore out the sleeve to that same size. Everything should fit nice and tight.
Let me know if you need some add’l info, but I think that should get you going.
Thanks,
Kevin
I purchased a stock 205 wrangler about one year ago and the “Death Wobble” began soon after the purchase. I researched the problem as it grew wrose, and being a certified mechanic I finally conquered the problem… knock on wood. I started with the front track bar which made a big difference in the feel but it did not eliminate the problem. I found that the factory rubber control arm bushings had more play in them than I was comfortable with. Living in Arizona the heat deteriorates rubber quickly, so I decided to go with Prothane bushings. I replaced the control arm and the track bar bushings with the prothane bushings. On the way to front end alignment shop I could not drive over 45 without experiencing a violent front end wobble. After the alignment I could drive faster but the front end still wanted to wobble although not as bad as before. While changing the bushings I noticed that the shocks were showing signs that they were starting to leak fluid. Thinking about how my jeep handled on the road ( front end would dip while braking, vehicle would lean during cornering), these are signs of worn shocks. So after replacing all four shocks the ride is much improved and I have not experienced an episode of “Death wobble”. When I removed the old shocks and manually compared them to the new shocks they seemed to be as good as the new shocks, but the ride and gandling characteristics proved otherwise. I still have a vibration around 60-65 which seems to be coming from the rear. The tire shop manager says it is the tires (BFG mud terrain km2), but the vibration remained the same after a new balance and rotation so that tells me that it is not in the tires but elsewhere. I want to pull the rear driveshaft and check the ujoints, but this will also be resolved. As for the “death wobble”, it has not occured since I have finished the work with bushings, alignment, shocks, and tires.
Jay:
Being that you’re in AZ, feel free to bring it by, and we can look it over for you if the problem comes back. We’ve cured maybe 50 cases of Death Wobble in-house this year alone for local Valley residents, and I’m sure we can assist you with yours if you’re still having trouble.
A few things about your post…
Lower control arm bushings have definitely been known to cause DW. However, the polyurethane bushings you selected typically will make the ride much harsher on a Wrangler, and ten-fold more harsh on a Jeep Grand Cherokee or Cherokee, which has the frame welded to the body (a.k.a. “uniframe”. You get some dampening with the rubber body mounts between your separated frame and body, which the WJ, XJ and ZJ don’t have). That said, replacing them with new factory rubber bushings would have given you a better absorption of vibration and noise from the road, AND my suspicion is that it would have also solved the Death Wobble problem caused by the bad bushings you identified. Polyurethane wears out quicker than rubber, so we NEVER recommend polyurethane bushings in lower control arms, because there literally is no upside to running them versus a new rubber bushing, other than a few dollars in difference.
Secondly, if you installed either a factory track bar, or a lower-quality aftermarket track bar, that MAY have been the reason why the track bar and new bushings didn’t solve the death wobble problem for you immediately. Lower quality (and the factory bar) actually “accordion”, changing lengths ever so slightly because they are not beefy enough to handle the forces on even a stock-height Jeep, much less one with a lift and larger tires. The JKS bars (and only two other manufacturers on the market, both of which unfortunately don’t install the necessary bushings or frame side link to combat DW) are the only ones that I can’t get ANY “accordian” effect out of, even with huge tires with low pressures, which is exactly the reason why we ONLY sell the JKS bar. It’s the ONLY one we’ve found that’s this effective, and by far the highest quality track bar we’ve ever seen. We’ve had countless cases in which an aftermarket adjustable track bar was removed and a JKS track bar with our KOR-1199 SuperDurometer bushings was installed, and the death wobble problem went away immediately, even without an alignment.
Shocks are a HUGE problem if they are bad, but never the SOLE cause of death wobble. Several Jeeps we’ve aligned at our shop which also had bad shocks STILL had mild Death Wobble even after we replaced everything else. Replacing the shocks with a good quality Bilstien or MX6 adjustable almost always does the trick, so yeah, bad shocks can cause the problem to happen more often because they allow too much “uncontrolled” movement when hitting bumps. However, the important take-away is that we have NEVER replaced bad shocks ONLY, and had Death Wobble go away as a result.
Kevin,
I have a few (too many xj’s and one comanchee at my house) one is stock 3 lifted from 3″ to four inch. all seem to get this same death shake after just a couple months of changing track bar and control arm bushings. could you possibly give me the correct part numbers for the bushings you sell to replace the stock units i keep eating up they are all 90 thru 97 jeeps so all have the same parts in them. and is there a stock bar that i can get that is bushing to bushing rather than bushing to tie rod end.
thanks for all the help
Ervin:
The correct part number you are looking for to replace the factory lower bushing (on the axle side) with our SuperDurometer bushings is KOR-1189-S,<click the direct link< and it comes with a 1/2" ID steel sleeve in it.
Our Hard-KOR Track Bar Conversion is the only setup that offers an upper and lower Super Durometer bushing configuration, and gets you away from having to use the lame Death Wobble causing factory-style tie rod end, which wears out, and gives you Death Wobble problems after it wears. Over the years, Jeep has realized that the rubber bushing at the axle side was NOT the right way to go about solving the problem, and have gone to a completely different “castelated” style on the JKs to help the Death Wobble issues they were having on the Cherokees and Earlier Grand Cherokees.
I’ve been fighting the death wobble in my ’05 Wrangler Rubicon since it was brand new…….your website is the most comprehensive I’ve ever found. Mine has been in and out of the stealership with claims there is nothing wrong……… My Wrangler is bone stock, all of the fixes I find assume it’s lifted. What is the best path to follow for a stock Jeep? I feel that replacing the track bar and the steering stabilizer is the best bet…….do you have a track bar recommendation for a stock vehicle?
Eric:
Same exact fixes for a stock rig as a lifted one. Replacing the Track Bar is a biggie! I like the JKS track bar because it’s a LOT stiffer than the stock track bar is, but it requires 1″ of lift, or it’ll lightly rub the differential cover due to the add’l thickness of the bar. You can simply add 1″ poly spring spacers from Daystar (various vendors sell these) and keep your factory-length shocks to get around this problem, though. Our Super-Durometer bushings are a biggie too, and are highly recommended when installing any new track bar, because most included bushings are just not hard enough. Just follow the instructions for your stock-height, and you’ll be able to cure the Death Wobble problem you’re having.